Andrii-zvorygin Spiritual Meeting Transcript — June 27, 2026

00:00:00 speaker_unknown: I'm Andres Morgan, joined here today with Bill and Ed, and we are reading the April 25th, 2026 session, and it is on service, suffering, and grief beyond the veil.

00:00:16 speaker_unknown: And we may start on the next session if we're done early.

00:00:21 speaker_unknown: I have a question, Kudos.

00:00:22 SPEAKER_001: So the question is, it's about our place in this world and how we contribute and be of service to others.

00:00:39 SPEAKER_001: How do we know?

00:00:43 SPEAKER_001: if we are contributing in being of service?

00:00:47 SPEAKER_001: It is not my question.

00:00:54 SPEAKER_001: It is my friend's question, so I will try to translate as best as I can.

00:01:00 SPEAKER_001: How do we?

00:01:06 SPEAKER_001: It is the goal to in being of service.

00:01:12 SPEAKER_003: Is it to create peace and harmony?

00:01:23 SPEAKER_003: Is that the indicator that we are in our right place and being of service, or is that a limited perception?

00:01:38 SPEAKER_003: Is there the question is, how do we know if we are properly?

00:01:47 SPEAKER_003: I mean, being of service is. there another indicator?

00:01:53 SPEAKER_003: How do we know?

00:02:11 SPEAKER_003: We are those of Kuo, and give thanks for your articulation, persistent, of our brother's question on this matter, which is a question and a direction that is on the hearts of many,

00:02:38 SPEAKER_003: who find themselves within a veiled environment, whereby nothing is known for sure, whereby one has those of Ra described, works with a candle.

00:02:56 SPEAKER_003: light in the darkness,

00:02:59 SPEAKER_003: and may only illuminate a small portion of one's catalyst and circumstance and path at any given time.

00:03:17 SPEAKER_003: But must otherwise, as the positive journey moves forward, grow more comfortable or able to trust, shall we say, in the unknown and in the unknowing.

00:03:44 SPEAKER_003: In the trust that, though you may use various maps as resources for your journey, the terrain remains a mystery, as does the question of the reliability of any given map or system of maps,

00:04:05 SPEAKER_003: and how they may apply to one's particular nexus and their incarnation.

00:04:24 SPEAKER_003: The more mature and maturing spiritual seeker will learn more and more to consciously invoke faith—that is, that mindset or heart set where one by whereby one.

00:04:44 SPEAKER_003: trusts that wherever they may place their feet,

00:04:50 SPEAKER_003: there are no mistakes, and they are moving in the intended direction along a path that was prepared for the self.

00:05:15 SPEAKER_003: In fact, our brother, the more that one can invoke and embody this alive faith and bring their present presence to the present moment, one may more paradoxically align with their intended path.

00:05:33 SPEAKER_003: however,

00:05:34 SPEAKER_003: that may look for the self,

00:05:52 SPEAKER_003: one may take the most efficient use of the catalyst when one can work on one's intentions and unknowing and accepting the self in an ambiance of knowing that one ultimately does not understand or know

00:06:11 SPEAKER_003: in an ultimate sense.

00:06:26 SPEAKER_003: One can only move forward and leap into mid mid air, shall we say, trusting that one is alive and existing in a universe of.

00:06:42 SPEAKER_003: love that has arranged just this moment for you,

00:06:47 SPEAKER_003: that you may learn, in this faith-filled, broader understanding, there is no true way to be off the path.

00:07:09 SPEAKER_003: For which, in whichever direction you turn, you will be greeted by your catalyst, by that which is designed to help you, you specifically, to learn the ways of love,

00:07:25 SPEAKER_003: to learn that which is for you to learn.

00:07:41 SPEAKER_003: And one may find that faith or love, not only in the Himalayan cave, but in the classroom as well, with the young entities and with the various social,

00:08:11 SPEAKER_003: political dynamics that intersect with such circumstance and profession, has to this how question: How does one know whether they are upon the light path, or the path made for oneself, or the highest and best?

00:08:39 SPEAKER_003: best path, as we were saying, a brother, you operate in a darkness.

00:08:57 SPEAKER_003: But there are ways by which to sense and feel and cultivate a discernment, which may inform one's decision making, such that they may find greater and greater alignment with their deeper nature.

00:09:25 SPEAKER_003: This alignment may not necessarily place oneself into a harmonious outer experience of community and joy and.

00:09:40 SPEAKER_003: fulfillment, there may be chapters or seasons upon such a journey,

00:09:50 SPEAKER_003: even one does feel this alignment of difficulty or deprivation or challenges by which the self is not able to find meaning or comfort or inspiration outside the self,

00:10:11 SPEAKER_003: but must instead develop the self-centered sources through the exercise and development of will and faith,

00:10:26 SPEAKER_003: such that the such that the focus and the need becomes less reliant upon out of circumstances being such and such a way,

00:10:52 SPEAKER_003: and instead becomes an opportunity for the self to channel the light moving through them into that circumstance, for the self to open their heart and become a vessel, such that the creator may walk,

00:11:23 SPEAKER_003: work through the self, and give without expectation of return, and may radiate the eternal. love and light, regardless of what other selves may or may not do, may or may not say,

00:11:39 SPEAKER_003: regardless of how other selves may or may not treat the self.

00:11:56 SPEAKER_003: This form formula or algorithm or physics changes such that it becomes not what the entity within the third density may get from any particular situation, but what the entity may give,

00:12:17 SPEAKER_003: how the entity may. serve.

00:12:33 SPEAKER_001: Now, our friends, there is ever the balance between love and wisdom to develop, to perfect, to revisit again and again.

00:13:05 SPEAKER_001: That asks the self that they wish to give to the point of martyrdom, to give to the point where they expand themselves so thoroughly that they have nothing left, shall we say, for themselves.

00:13:25 SPEAKER_001: That they risk burnout and depletion, and in the furthest and truest sense of the word.

00:13:36 SPEAKER_001: True, a sense of the word, death of the self, as well in the noble name of service.

00:13:46 SPEAKER_001: This is a valid and true option.

00:14:02 SPEAKER_001: But depending upon where the self is, upon their evolution, and the work they wish to do in moving upward to or upon that journey of seeking oneness with the Creator,

00:14:33 SPEAKER_001: they may wish to refine the quality of that pure, noble, and universal love.

00:14:43 SPEAKER_001: and through the eyes of wisdom, that they may more skilfully choose how and when and where to shine that love,

00:14:59 SPEAKER_001: without judgment, for any but in a balanced way that honors the self's need, and care for other selves, that the self may continue to shine and serve.

00:15:28 SPEAKER_001: In this seeking to know how one may tell if they are in the right place, making the right choices.

00:15:38 SPEAKER_001: we can only and ever counsel you, our brother and our friends of third density,

00:15:46 SPEAKER_004: to learn to go within, for the ultimate authority and source of knowing exists for ever and always within your own heart.

00:15:58 SPEAKER_004: It may sound trite or cliche to counsel one to follow their heart, but this we assure you is not a superficial suggestion.

00:16:12 SPEAKER_004: It takes work and consciousness through the exercise of will and faith, and particularly the ability to consciously listen to silence and stillness, to enter one's own heart,

00:16:35 SPEAKER_004: to clear out one's energy field through practices of loving acceptance and forgiveness, to free the heart of self-judgment and others, to free the heart of self-judgment and Self judgment and judgment of others.

00:17:05 SPEAKER_004: It takes this work to enter the depths of one's own heart, which is the key to the portal to the one Creator,

00:17:18 SPEAKER_005: which awaits there in the sacred innermost portion of one's own heart of being.

00:17:38 SPEAKER_005: Always and right now, there are only the layers of mask and personas and distorted ideas about who the self is that must be lovingly understood.

00:18:01 SPEAKER_005: and forgiven, and if not discarded altogether,

00:18:08 SPEAKER_005: then made transparent such that the self can rest strongly and humbly in the center of their own being and trust that intuition, that inspiration that moves through the silence to the conscious mind.

00:18:35 SPEAKER_005: There is often, or at least can be, outer validation for this hearkening to the voice of inner counsel, but we correct this instrument.

00:19:03 SPEAKER_005: But it is not often so easy that by listening to one's inner voice, the world will reflect back to the self in a pleasant way that this indeed was the right choice.

00:19:17 SPEAKER_005: It is a difficult balancing act.

00:19:38 SPEAKER_005: But the more that the self can keys apart the voices within the being that have been internalized from external sources.

00:19:49 SPEAKER_005: to untangle the expectations one places upon the self and the stories about oneself that

00:19:57 SPEAKER_005: one has adopted,

00:20:10 SPEAKER_005: and to dig down, shall we say, and move within and move deeper and move deeper still to find who the essence of the self is.

00:20:36 SPEAKER_005: To one who does this work of will and of faith, there is the possibility of moving forward in choice making, not only in the dark.

00:20:58 SPEAKER_005: Not only in the darkness of faith, but in the surety that one is in alignment with, and moving according to one's own lights.

00:21:17 SPEAKER_005: There is strength in this, and this can be made more and increasingly more available to the self.

00:21:31 SPEAKER_005: The more that the self learns to operate fearlessly, without fear of making a wrong choice, without fear of misstepping.

00:21:45 SPEAKER_001: Certainly, choices will yield. undesirable outcomes.

00:21:50 SPEAKER_001: Calculations will go awry.

00:21:57 SPEAKER_001: There is no avoiding this.

00:22:03 SPEAKER_001: But as we said at the opening of our lengthy response, you cannot make a mistake.

00:22:18 SPEAKER_001: You cannot misstep in the larger sense of things.

00:22:29 SPEAKER_001: And when one can relax into this attitude, the way opens much more brightly for the self.

00:22:37 SPEAKER_001: Is there a follow-up question?

00:22:40 SPEAKER_001: No. No, there is not.

00:22:42 SPEAKER_001: Yes.

00:22:43 SPEAKER_001: Fair enough.

00:22:48 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, that was a long one.

00:22:57 SPEAKER_001: That was a lengthy one.

00:23:02 SPEAKER_001: That was the lengthy one.

00:23:05 SPEAKER_001: Okay, that was super long.

00:23:08 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, yeah.

00:23:21 SPEAKER_001: I was honestly thinking of breaking it up into parts, but by the time I thought of that, we only had three paragraphs to go, and I was like, "What?"

00:23:38 SPEAKER_001: I I think it's covering the same thing over and over again.

00:23:45 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, yeah, in different ways.

00:23:47 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, same thing.

00:23:50 SPEAKER_001: Okay, now let's do this.

00:23:57 SPEAKER_001: It's basically say there's are are no mistakes.

00:24:00 SPEAKER_001: You know, try to do things with love.

00:24:05 SPEAKER_001: You know, try to love and serve.

00:24:09 SPEAKER_001: Accept, love, forgive yourself.

00:24:12 SPEAKER_001: Go deep.

00:24:16 SPEAKER_001: I mean, go within to your intuition.

00:24:22 SPEAKER_001: Yes, yes.

00:24:27 SPEAKER_001: Orthogonally, do you guys know what that means?

00:24:32 SPEAKER_001: What what what?

00:24:33 SPEAKER_001: Orthogonal.

00:24:33 SPEAKER_001: Orthogonal.

00:24:38 SPEAKER_001: As in, like the same as something else.

00:24:42 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, like that, like that, like.

00:24:47 SPEAKER_001: As in distinct.

00:24:53 SPEAKER_001: So, so like where you don't have an overlap.

00:24:59 SPEAKER_001: Oh my gosh, bro!

00:25:04 SPEAKER_001: No, I mean make a article with.

00:25:10 SPEAKER_001: Well, we need to welcome Eric in.

00:25:13 SPEAKER_001: Hey, yeah, Eric.

00:25:15 SPEAKER_001: Hey. quotes for seekers.

00:25:18 SPEAKER_001: Hey, how are you?

00:25:21 SPEAKER_001: Good, good.

00:25:27 SPEAKER_001: You just, Mister, got in on a real lengthy response.

00:25:38 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, I saw.

00:25:40 SPEAKER_001: What do you think?

00:25:44 SPEAKER_001: I don't know.

00:25:49 SPEAKER_001: I just caught the end of it.

00:25:57 SPEAKER_001: I was still getting settled while you guys were reading.

00:26:02 SPEAKER_001: Fair enough.

00:26:06 SPEAKER_001: How do we know we are on the right path?

00:26:11 SPEAKER_001: Great questions.

00:26:12 SPEAKER_001: Yeah.

00:26:13 SPEAKER_001: Questions?

00:26:15 SPEAKER_001: Yes, excellent questions, seekers.

00:26:23 SPEAKER_001: Is how to know whether we are truly being of service is peace the sign?

00:26:30 SPEAKER_001: Is harmony the sign?

00:26:41 SPEAKER_001: Is outer success the sign, or is the power of service often hidden beneath uncertainty, difficulty, and quiet work of faith?

00:26:55 SPEAKER_001: Who answers by pointing first to the condition of life in third density?

00:27:02 SPEAKER_001: We walk under a veil.

00:27:08 SPEAKER_001: We rarely see the whole path.

00:27:09 SPEAKER_001: Oh, yeah.

00:27:14 SPEAKER_001: Receive only enough light for the next step.

00:27:36 SPEAKER_001: One of those of Raw has described works with a candle of light in the darkness and may only illuminate a small portions of one's catalyst and circumstance, and the path at any given time.

00:27:55 SPEAKER_001: This is a deeply compassionate doctrine.

00:28:02 SPEAKER_001: The seeker is rarely asked to know everything.

00:28:08 SPEAKER_001: The seeker is asked to keep walking, sincerity, humility, and trust, faith in the. unknown.

00:28:18 SPEAKER_001: Kuo describes faith as something more active than belief.

00:28:26 SPEAKER_003: Faith is a living posture of the heart.

00:28:34 SPEAKER_003: It is the willingness to step forward even when the terrain remains mysterious.

00:28:44 SPEAKER_003: The more mature and maturing spiritual seeker will learn more and more consciously invoke faith.

00:28:59 SPEAKER_003: To invoke faith—that is that mindset, that heartset, whereby one trusts that wherever they may place their feet. there are no mistakes,

00:29:16 SPEAKER_001: and they are moving in the intended direction along a path that was prepared for the self.

00:29:32 SPEAKER_001: This does away with the frantic fear that every choice might ruin the incarnation.

00:29:48 SPEAKER_001: There are consequences, lessons, and painful detours, but Kuhl's wider view is that even these become material for growth.

00:30:01 SPEAKER_001: Faith, then, the deep trust the creator can use even imperfect choices for learning, healing. and service.

00:30:12 SPEAKER_001: The present moment is arranged for learning.

00:30:15 SPEAKER_001: Cool.

00:30:20 SPEAKER_001: I was just going to say, like, I I really agree with Robo rather because.

00:30:24 SPEAKER_001: Go ahead.

00:30:30 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, something that struck me about this bit is, when like when I first kind of started reading the Torah, one that brought me realizations like that.

00:30:52 SPEAKER_001: Every single part of my life, every single bit, had been leading me on a path.

00:30:59 SPEAKER_001: You know. like doesn't matter what.

00:31:08 SPEAKER_001: Like when I look back, it's like everything I done happened for a reason, you know.

00:31:30 SPEAKER_001: And in not silly reasons, like stuff that like I got, you know, like a like a at the minute like what I'm doing, you know, some of the projects and stuff that I got given,

00:31:47 SPEAKER_001: nobody else got given them.

00:31:58 SPEAKER_001: They were they were completely random, weird ones, but every single one of them is vitally important to me now, you know.

00:32:24 SPEAKER_001: So every single thing that you go through, go through for a reason, and it's like when you when you start thinking like.

00:32:37 SPEAKER_001: that and start looking back and seeing that everything you've been through,

00:32:44 SPEAKER_001: every single thing was necessary, part of the journey.

00:32:53 SPEAKER_001: It has always been, and it can't go wrong because doesn't matter what happens, it's still perfect.

00:33:12 SPEAKER_001: That then then then like why wouldn't you have very faith that it's always going to, you know,

00:33:25 SPEAKER_001: and those kind of realisations are the things that can help you kind of get to that place of being like, you know.

00:33:36 SPEAKER_001: I know everything's everything's always perfect.

00:33:43 SPEAKER_001: So you're creating everything, right?

00:33:45 SPEAKER_001: Yes.

00:33:49 SPEAKER_001: Working on it.

00:33:51 SPEAKER_001: No, I'm not working.

00:33:56 SPEAKER_001: I'm doing it.

00:34:04 SPEAKER_001: You're doing it.

00:34:07 SPEAKER_001: Ah, that's better.

00:34:08 SPEAKER_001: That's better.

00:34:14 SPEAKER_001: The present moment is arranged for learning.

00:34:17 SPEAKER_001: Cool.

00:34:20 SPEAKER_001: Then deepens the point.

00:34:30 SPEAKER_001: We are invited to trust that the present moment itself has meaning.

00:34:56 SPEAKER_001: One can only move forward and leap into midair, shall we say, trusting that one is alive and existing in a universe of love that has arranged just this moment for you.

00:35:22 SPEAKER_001: This is a powerful reframing of catalysts: the difficult conversation, the blocked door, the unexpected responsibility, the daily work, the classroom, the family, the social tension.

00:35:33 SPEAKER_001: All of it may become the place where love is learned. the path is not somewhere else.

00:35:38 SPEAKER_001: The path is beneath the feet.

00:35:45 SPEAKER_001: There is no true way to be off the path.

00:35:53 SPEAKER_001: For which, in whichever direction you turn, you will be greeted by your catalyst.

00:36:12 SPEAKER_003: For the seeker, this removes the fantasy that spiritual life only happens in ideal conditions.

00:36:31 SPEAKER_003: The cave, the monastery, the classroom, the kitchen, the workplace, the public square can all become. holy ground?

00:36:42 SPEAKER_003: Alignment does not always feel peaceful.

00:36:45 SPEAKER_003: Most, yep.

00:36:51 SPEAKER_003: Did someone say something?

00:36:54 SPEAKER_005: Alignment does not always feel peaceful.

00:37:00 SPEAKER_005: A common misunderstanding is that the aligned must produce outer harmony.

00:37:09 SPEAKER_005: Cool cautions against using pleasant circumstances as the main test of spiritual correctness.

00:37:18 SPEAKER_005: Disalignment may not necessarily place oneself into a harmonious outer experience of community and joy.

00:37:27 SPEAKER_005: and fulfillment.

00:37:31 SPEAKER_005: Hey, Ashley, how are you doing?

00:37:35 SPEAKER_005: She missed it.

00:37:43 SPEAKER_005: Oh, that's fine.

00:37:47 SPEAKER_005: This matters.

00:37:55 SPEAKER_003: A seeker may be doing meaningful work and still pass through difficulty, deprivation, misunderstanding, loneliness, or conflict.

00:38:06 SPEAKER_003: The absence of ease does not automatically mean the path is wrong.

00:38:17 SPEAKER_003: Instead, Kuo suggests that difficult chapters may strengthen inner resources.

00:38:32 SPEAKER_003: There may be.

00:38:36 SPEAKER_003: chapters or seasons upon such a journey, even when one does feel this alignment of difficulty or deprivation or challenges,

00:38:58 SPEAKER_003: by which the self is not able to find meaning or comfort or inspiration outside the self, but must instead develop the self's inner resources through the exercise and development of will and faith.

00:39:20 SPEAKER_003: In other words, the question shifts instead of asking only, "Is this situation giving me peace?"

00:39:32 SPEAKER_003: the seeker. may ask, "Can I bring love into this situation?"

00:39:38 SPEAKER_003: Yeah, fair enough.

00:39:52 SPEAKER_003: But you know, that said, I think that if you are on the path of love and light, you will see your reflection sometimes, not always, but sometimes.

00:40:18 SPEAKER_003: People, I think he means he means the way the world reflects what your Reflects what you're doing back to you.

00:40:32 SPEAKER_003: Yes, yes, yes.

00:40:34 SPEAKER_003: You know, exactly.

00:40:37 SPEAKER_003: Yeah, yeah.

00:40:39 SPEAKER_003: Service changes the question.

00:40:47 SPEAKER_003: Kuo gives one of the clearest measures of service in his passage.

00:40:57 SPEAKER_003: The seeker moves from consumption to radiance, from extraction to offering.

00:41:19 SPEAKER_003: This formula or algorithm or physics changes such that it becomes not what the entity within third density may get from any.

00:41:32 SPEAKER_003: particular situation, but what the entity may give, how the entity may serve.

00:41:42 SPEAKER_003: This is simple but demanding.

00:42:01 SPEAKER_003: The spiritual life becomes less about arranging the world for personal satisfaction, and more about becoming a channel through which love can enter the world.

00:42:16 SPEAKER_003: That does not mean self-rapture.

00:42:21 SPEAKER_003: It means reorientation of the heart.

00:42:31 SPEAKER_003: Yes, more about. becoming the channel through which the love can enter the world.

00:42:39 SPEAKER_003: Amen.

00:42:44 SPEAKER_003: Yes, love must be balanced with wisdom, who directly addresses the danger of martyrdom.

00:43:01 SPEAKER_003: Pure love may wish to give endlessly, but wisdom asks whether that giving can continue in a sustainable way.

00:43:27 SPEAKER_003: There is ever the balance between love and wisdom to develop, to perfect, to revisit again and again, and asks the self if they wish to give to.

00:43:47 SPEAKER_003: the point of martyrdom.

00:43:50 SPEAKER_003: This is especially important for helpers, teachers, parents, healers, organizers, and anyone drawn to service.

00:44:00 SPEAKER_003: Burnout can disguise itself as devotion.

00:44:09 SPEAKER_003: Exhaustion can appear noble while quietly reducing the ability to serve.

00:44:17 SPEAKER_003: Kuru's counsel is balanced service, love refined through wisdom.

00:44:24 SPEAKER_003: Hi, Wendy.

00:44:26 SPEAKER_003: What are we reading?

00:44:30 SPEAKER_003: We are reading April twenty fifth, twenty.

00:44:40 SPEAKER_003: To twenty oh twenty six here, but we are reading a summary of it right now.

00:44:55 SPEAKER_003: Here, I will send you the link.

00:45:03 SPEAKER_003: And I don't know if I can send you the link for this one.

00:45:12 SPEAKER_003: I don't think so.

00:45:13 SPEAKER_003: Yes.

00:45:18 SPEAKER_003: So right now we're reading a summary of the question.

00:45:21 SPEAKER_003: Okay.

00:45:22 SPEAKER_003: So.

00:45:25 SPEAKER_003: They may wish to refine the quality.

00:45:29 SPEAKER_003: Yes, here we go.

00:45:45 SPEAKER_003: They may wish to refine the quality of that pure and noble and universal love, in through the eyes of wisdom, that they may more skilfully choose how and when and where to shine that love.

00:46:04 SPEAKER_003: This is a mature vision of service.

00:46:10 SPEAKER_003: The self is honored so that service may continue.

00:46:17 SPEAKER_003: Rest, boundaries, discernment, and self-care become part of the offering.

00:46:36 SPEAKER_003: You know, I feel. like for me, finding that balance of resting and you know enough to let my body heal, and yet also to be of service.

00:46:50 SPEAKER_003: This is, you know, quite the balance point to achieve, because if if you overdo it, then you won't be able to be of service.

00:46:59 SPEAKER_003: So it's it's it's that fine line.

00:47:03 SPEAKER_003: Authority is within the heart.

00:47:13 SPEAKER_003: In the heart, after speaking of faith, catalyst service, and wisdom, Kuhl returns to the inner source of discernment.

00:47:32 SPEAKER_003: The ultimate authority and source of knowing exists forever and always within your own heart.

00:47:37 SPEAKER_003: This is not a casual slogan.

00:47:43 SPEAKER_004: Kuhl immediately clarifies that following the heart requires discipline, silence, forgiveness, and inner clearing.

00:47:57 SPEAKER_004: It, for sure, it takes work and consciousness through the exercise of will and faith, particularly the ability to consciously listen to silence. and stillness to enter one's own heart,

00:48:10 SPEAKER_003: because it's easy to fool oneself by, you know, telling yourself what you want to hear,

00:48:29 SPEAKER_003: rather than just listening to the silence and getting you know genuine messages from the Holy Spirit or your spirit guides or whoever it is you're trying to contact.

00:48:52 SPEAKER_005: The heart can be covered by fears, self-judgment, inherited expectations, old stories, and the voices of others.

00:49:01 SPEAKER_005: Yes, this is. also true.

00:49:03 SPEAKER_005: I know.

00:49:15 SPEAKER_005: Early in my meditations, I noticed that I was repeating within my mind that which my parents had told me, and it was just like looping there.

00:49:34 SPEAKER_005: And so, you know, it was the time for cleaning out the old garbage, as it were.

00:49:51 SPEAKER_004: The work of the seeker is to gently clear those coverings, so the. deeper voice, maybe exactly, exactly.

00:50:02 SPEAKER_004: Before you can get to the stillness, you know, it's kind of like imagine you're have a glass floor, but on top of the glass floor, you have a bunch of junk,

00:50:13 SPEAKER_004: and so to see through it, you first have to clear that junk.

00:50:18 SPEAKER_004: The masks become transparent.

00:50:20 SPEAKER_004: Who describes the inner work as a process?

00:50:24 SPEAKER_001: of discovering this essence of the self.

00:50:43 SPEAKER_001: The layers, they are only the layers of masks and personas and distorted ideas about who the self is that must be lovingly understood, forgiven, and if not discarded altogether, then made transparent.

00:50:55 SPEAKER_001: Yes, yes.

00:51:03 SPEAKER_001: Well, you have to see the love and light of the one infinite creator through that.

00:51:12 SPEAKER_004: Through them, and that is how they become transparent.

00:51:21 SPEAKER_004: Instead of seeing them as a narrative, you see them as the infinite creator doing its best to be of service in love in its own way.

00:51:31 SPEAKER_004: This is a compassionate way to understand spiritual purification.

00:51:38 SPEAKER_004: The goal is not to hate the masks, but to see through them.

00:51:43 SPEAKER_004: The false self softens.

00:51:46 SPEAKER_004: The defended self becomes transparent.

00:51:51 SPEAKER_004: The seeker begins to rest more humbly and strongly in the center of being.

00:51:55 SPEAKER_004: being the infinite creator.

00:51:56 SPEAKER_004: Then intuition becomes clearer.

00:52:04 SPEAKER_004: The self rests strongly and humbly in the center of their own being and trusts that intuition, that inspiration that moves through the silence to the conscious mind.

00:52:14 SPEAKER_004: Outer validation may be absent.

00:52:22 SPEAKER_004: Yes, for sure.

00:52:26 SPEAKER_004: For you know.

00:52:34 SPEAKER_003: I think that was one of the main lessons of my childhood.

00:52:47 SPEAKER_003: Is you know, I never got any validation from anybody for like I don't know my entire childhood until probably I was in high school or something.

00:53:06 SPEAKER_004: I didn't experience any external validation, so you know, I guess you could say toughened me up.

00:53:11 SPEAKER_004: But for some people, they don't survive that.

00:53:16 SPEAKER_004: Well, I can validate that you're awesome, dude.

00:53:18 SPEAKER_004: Thanks.

00:53:29 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, but you know, I just I had to really rely on my inner resources and be like, you know, I have to consider with the infinite creator and that which is of service to.

00:53:55 SPEAKER_003: Well, that that sounds like an actual pre-incarnate of choice you made.

00:54:00 SPEAKER_003: Yes, exactly.

00:54:01 SPEAKER_003: Learn that lesson.

00:54:03 SPEAKER_003: Exactly.

00:54:03 SPEAKER_003: Exactly.

00:54:13 SPEAKER_004: I think that it helped me. learn not to be dependent on other people's opinions, because you know, like my entire formation of my like, you know, childhood up to like twelve or whatever, I had,

00:54:25 SPEAKER_004: or more longer even, I had absolutely no validation from anybody.

00:54:33 SPEAKER_004: Um, well, occasionally, you know, some tutors would say, "Oh, yeah, you're smart," but other than that, but it was.

00:54:45 SPEAKER_001: But it wasn't very useful for me.

00:54:59 SPEAKER_001: It wasn't useful for me because if I would repeat that to someone, that they would be very upset, you know.

00:55:20 SPEAKER_003: And I had to learn on my own that it's not about trumpeting our own abilities, but using them to be of service to others.

00:55:35 SPEAKER_003: That actually gives well.

00:55:40 SPEAKER_001: It it's it's a it's a balance, you know.

00:55:53 SPEAKER_001: You don't want to, you know, if you're trying to balance things, you you validate your kids every now and then, you know.

00:56:22 SPEAKER_001: You don't always tell your kids no, like if they want something, you don't always tell them no. Yes, because then they they get to think that they're in a world of of lack,

00:56:39 SPEAKER_001: and and they start having these weird outlets outlooks on life.

00:56:54 SPEAKER_001: But you know, you can create boundaries, so it's it's all a matter of balance.

00:57:16 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, but you'll you'll some people will put themselves.

00:57:22 SPEAKER_001: and you know, pre-incarnatively put themselves in situations where there's completely no balance, and they want to learn a specific lesson.

00:57:37 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:57:45 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, I mean, I have a completely different approach with my children.

00:57:57 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, it's it's about self-confidence, you know, and helping.

00:58:05 SPEAKER_001: Hating the mistakes.

00:58:09 SPEAKER_001: No, absolutely not.

00:58:13 SPEAKER_001: No, no, no. It has to do.

00:58:17 SPEAKER_001: Eat the rat with the base.

00:58:23 SPEAKER_001: Beat the rat with a baseball bat, guys.

00:58:27 SPEAKER_001: You guys are so American.

00:58:30 SPEAKER_001: What, Jake?

00:58:31 SPEAKER_001: Um.

00:58:35 SPEAKER_001: Anyhow, that's an English song from an English song.

00:58:41 SPEAKER_001: Yeah.

00:58:42 SPEAKER_001: Well, yeah.

00:58:48 SPEAKER_001: The English, you know, the Americans inherited their violent parenting tendencies from the British.

00:58:57 SPEAKER_001: Yes, we did.

00:58:58 SPEAKER_001: Yeah.

00:59:04 SPEAKER_001: But anyhow, in Canada, we strive to be polite and kind to our children.

00:59:10 SPEAKER_001: Oh, Canada inherited it too.

00:59:16 SPEAKER_001: I thought the reminds you from New York.

00:59:20 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, but anyhow, it's it's.

00:59:24 SPEAKER_004: So what I've discovered, anyways, that self confidence is the main thing.

00:59:42 SPEAKER_004: So, you know, letting them try a task and learning how to do it on their own, and then you offer support if you're asked, and otherwise you let them do it.

01:00:00 SPEAKER_005: And this is actually very natural for children.

01:00:10 SPEAKER_005: Often, at a certain point, when they feel like they're capable, they don't want help.

01:00:22 SPEAKER_005: They want to do it themselves.

01:00:28 SPEAKER_005: and this is a great time to encourage them to actually do it themselves.

01:00:43 SPEAKER_005: As long as you know it's safe, you know you have to set those boundaries because they don't know they don't know what might hurt them or give life-altering consequences.

01:01:04 SPEAKER_005: And so you have to be there as a parent to set safe guidelines and to show them how to interact with society in a way that will lead them to success.

01:01:17 SPEAKER_005: I totally agree, Andre.

01:01:20 SPEAKER_005: That's beautifully put.

01:01:26 SPEAKER_005: But yeah, do just have the reminder stuck in my head now.

01:01:33 SPEAKER_005: Cheers, Bill.

01:01:38 SPEAKER_005: This is crucial for seekers who expect confirmation to come through applause, agreement, or visible success.

01:01:48 SPEAKER_005: Sometimes the right choice brings friction.

01:01:53 SPEAKER_005: Sometimes it brings solitude.

01:01:59 SPEAKER_005: Sometimes it makes sense only after a long period of faithful walking.

01:02:14 SPEAKER_005: The work is to distinguish the true inner voice from internalized voices.

01:02:29 SPEAKER_005: fear, obligation, pride, and old stories,

01:02:39 SPEAKER_005: the more that the self can tease apart the voices within the being that have been internalized from external sources to untangle the expectations one places upon self and the stories about oneself that one has

01:02:54 SPEAKER_005: adopted,

01:03:06 SPEAKER_005: there is the possibility of moving forward in choice making, not only in the darkness of faith but in the surety that one is in alignment with and. moving according to one's own lights.

01:03:19 SPEAKER_005: This is discernment.

01:03:31 SPEAKER_005: It is not certainty in the worldly sense.

01:03:43 SPEAKER_005: It is a grounded inner knowing that becomes stronger through silence, forgiveness, faith, and repeated practice.

01:03:56 SPEAKER_005: You cannot miss the larger path.

01:04:00 SPEAKER_005: Who ends this teaching with a liberating assurance?

01:04:03 SPEAKER_005: You cannot make a mistake.

01:04:08 SPEAKER_005: You cannot misstep in the larger sense of things.

01:04:23 SPEAKER_005: Largest sense of things, when one can relax into this attitude, the way opens much more brightly for the self.

01:04:36 SPEAKER_006: This does not erase responsibility; choices still matter.

01:04:46 SPEAKER_006: Some choices yield painful outcomes, but at the deepest level, the creator wastes nothing.

01:04:56 SPEAKER_006: Every step can become catalyst.

01:04:59 SPEAKER_006: Every catalyst can become learning.

01:05:03 SPEAKER_006: Every sincere effort to love can become service.

01:05:10 SPEAKER_006: For the seeker, this is the greatest.

01:05:17 SPEAKER_006: You do not need to see the whole world.

01:05:30 SPEAKER_006: You need only bring faith, listen inwardly, balance love with wisdom, and offer what light you can from where you stand.

01:05:44 SPEAKER_006: The candle may only illuminate a few steps ahead, but a few steps are enough.

01:05:52 SPEAKER_006: Man, all right.

01:05:55 SPEAKER_006: That was a good one.

01:05:59 SPEAKER_006: There was a lot there, wasn't there?

01:06:03 SPEAKER_006: Yes, there was.

01:06:07 SPEAKER_006: What was the longest?

01:06:13 SPEAKER_006: There's one bit I thought was really good.

01:06:22 SPEAKER_006: There was a bit though it talks about like, oh, was it?

01:06:28 SPEAKER_006: Yeah, the heart.

01:06:31 SPEAKER_006: Oh, sorry, I forgot it.

01:06:38 SPEAKER_006: It was a while ago, but yeah, that that it was good one.

01:06:51 SPEAKER_006: So I'm wondering if any of our new contestants here, Ashley and Wendy, had anything they wished to share before we move on.

01:07:02 SPEAKER_006: No, thank you.

01:07:03 SPEAKER_006: I resonate.

01:07:06 SPEAKER_006: Oh, thank you.

01:07:19 SPEAKER_006: I resonate with your sharing and appreciate the awareness that you have being a parent yourself, and also how you didn't let your childhood, where there was no validation,

01:07:50 SPEAKER_003: you didn't let that become a hindrance to you, but you made it a strength for yourself and.

01:08:17 SPEAKER_006: In your way, so that's just a sign that we can always determine how we let art catalyst affect us and use it for our good.

01:08:40 SPEAKER_006: And I I resonate with the portion of the message that encourages balance and service, not having too much.

01:08:54 SPEAKER_006: Not masking our own emotional, mental, physical depletion,

01:09:09 SPEAKER_006: and thinking that that is service—that we have to be suffering in order to be of service—and also understanding that we can have growth and evolution without necessarily being in pain all the time or going

01:09:28 SPEAKER_006: through hardship.

01:09:30 SPEAKER_006: Yes, for sure.

01:09:35 SPEAKER_003: Yeah, we can have a joyous. evolution as well.

01:09:42 SPEAKER_003: I think the pain moments are kind of like guidance.

01:09:45 SPEAKER_003: It's like, oh, you're well.

01:09:54 SPEAKER_003: At least for me, you know, it's every everyone is different.

01:10:09 SPEAKER_003: But for me, it's like, oh, you're going a little off the path, or it's like a little too much, and then you gotta go back that way or that way.

01:10:33 SPEAKER_003: Like, like I lifted a lot of heavy trays today, and you know, my shoulder looked a bit sore, and I don't know if, you know,

01:10:49 SPEAKER_003: I don't even know like if I'm gonna be able to make it to the market.

01:11:03 SPEAKER_007: If I'm going to be able to make it to the market tomorrow, I just have to see it.

01:11:15 SPEAKER_007: Well, and step at a time.

01:11:24 SPEAKER_007: When I wake up in the morning, it depends on how I'm going to feel then.

01:11:35 SPEAKER_007: I can.

01:11:40 SPEAKER_007: I will send you some reiki to your shoulder if you will accept.

01:11:47 SPEAKER_007: Sure, sure.

01:11:49 SPEAKER_007: And there are great example.

01:11:53 SPEAKER_007: And and there are points.

01:12:06 SPEAKER_004: You're better already. and there are, and there are points in everybody's incarnational experiences, in some incarnations where where we will choose to suffer, just so we can experience that.

01:12:15 SPEAKER_004: Yes.

01:12:16 SPEAKER_004: Yes.

01:12:16 SPEAKER_004: Yeah.

01:12:16 SPEAKER_004: True.

01:12:17 SPEAKER_004: I agree.

01:12:20 SPEAKER_004: There are sometimes where the experience doesn't have a meaning.

01:12:24 SPEAKER_004: The meaning is to experience that.

01:12:26 SPEAKER_004: Right.

01:12:26 SPEAKER_004: Yes.

01:12:27 SPEAKER_004: Yeah.

01:12:28 SPEAKER_004: Yeah.

01:12:33 SPEAKER_004: Hey, Andre, I'll I'll read the next one and then then one after that somebody else could read.

01:12:40 SPEAKER_004: Badge we wants to read.

01:12:42 SPEAKER_004: Okay, sure, sure.

01:12:45 SPEAKER_004: And Austin, I've got one.

01:12:55 SPEAKER_004: If nobody else has one, who I've been wondering about the natural tendency of people to avoid suffering and avoid difficulty,

01:13:08 SPEAKER_004: and in the light of the fact that a lot of our spiritual growth comes through suffering and difficult.

01:13:21 SPEAKER_004: Through suffering and difficulty, and I'm primarily curious right about right now about the sort of biological mechanisms that have trained us to avoid pain, avoid discomfort, and avoid suffering.

01:13:34 SPEAKER_004: Raw said that our logos has designed certain aspects of our biological beingness to accentuate our spiritual path.

01:13:45 SPEAKER_004: So I'm wondering if that is true of the natural evolution that caused us to avoid pain and avoid suffering.

01:14:01 SPEAKER_004: And I would just say, as if it is related to. the necessity of willpower and the need for will to be involved in spiritual evolution, that's my question.

01:14:11 SPEAKER_004: Oh, good question.

01:14:17 SPEAKER_003: We are those of Kuhl, and we thank you for this question, our brother.

01:14:36 SPEAKER_001: And we would say that, in our understanding, limited though it is, that you are upon the right track and seeing the development of the entity within third density has hav Has having this biological origin,

01:14:58 SPEAKER_004: which informs and helps to structure the nature of the mind and its relationship to catalyst, particularly that of suffering, for the chemical yellow ray complex that you inhabit, into which is integrated,

01:15:10 SPEAKER_004: integrated the mind and the spirit complex.

01:15:16 SPEAKER_004: As you, as you know, and as you would see it, billions of years of developmental evolution.

01:15:23 SPEAKER_004: Of developmental evolutionary history behind it,

01:15:36 SPEAKER_001: your body carries in in it a very long and ancient story that traces back to the first stirrings of the first density upon this world and mineral and early biological life,

01:16:05 SPEAKER_001: all the way up the great chain of being over the course of eons of your time, through interaction with and adaptation to the physical.

01:16:31 SPEAKER_001: environment.

01:16:33 SPEAKER_006: Entities learned how to respond, how to navigate, how to find the day's meal, how to avoid the predator, how and where to find one's offspring.

01:16:52 SPEAKER_003: Oh, how and where to keep one's offspring safe and to teach and grow them, and so forth.

01:17:11 SPEAKER_003: This has all been encoded in that DNA that is central to the blueprint and architecture of the operation of the physical.

01:17:28 SPEAKER_006: vehicle, and indeed there is a biological recoiling from the experience of pain,

01:17:39 SPEAKER_006: for it is an important signal or point of instruction for the second density entity that tells them about their environment and what to be avoided, if we may speak simplistically.

01:18:01 SPEAKER_006: And to a degree, this does not carry over into the third density experience as a body.

01:18:18 SPEAKER_006: Experience as the body itself, and one's neurology reacts to move the self away from pain.

01:18:40 SPEAKER_006: As you may know, the body, if it comes in contact with an external source that triggers pain, will reflectively pull away from that source.

01:19:16 SPEAKER_001: However, it gets complex and complicated when this biological basis is intertwined with the mind complex.

01:19:32 SPEAKER_001: the storytelling complex, the identity-making complex, which finds meaning in pain and the layers of pain that the mind creates,

01:19:51 SPEAKER_001: which one may call suffering of an emotional or a mental nature, such that this pain can be amplified, and this mind, informed by that basic rudimentary impulse to run away from pain,

01:20:21 SPEAKER_001: can make a habit of this in one's mental patterns, such that it is itself is, shall we say, carved into the neural pathways of the brain and the nervous system,

01:20:46 SPEAKER_004: that it becomes habituated and can be transposed onto those sources of pain which are purely of an emotional and non-physical nature, i.e.,

01:20:58 SPEAKER_004: the mistreatment or the abuse perceived or actual from another self or a situation. which one finds undesirable and to be avoided.

01:21:13 SPEAKER_004: This biological basis can influence and inform, and help to contribute to these habituated responses.

01:21:24 SPEAKER_004: But we would say, while each situation and entity is unique, generally speaking, this biological basis is not necessarily causal.

01:21:42 SPEAKER_004: Rather, we would.

01:21:44 SPEAKER_004: suggest that the responsibility exists principally with the mind complex and its use, skilful or otherwise, conscious or unconscious, of the will and its capacity and intention to look at,

01:22:03 SPEAKER_004: and face and process one's catalyst.

01:22:24 SPEAKER_006: A mind or entity who has not made or done much work to make their catalyst and their thinking and their Catalysts and their thinking and their beingness, conscious, will largely live a life unconsciously,

01:23:02 SPEAKER_006: reacting to a catalyst and the body's proclivity to avoid pain unconsciously, and the mind's proclivity to carry that forward will mutually energize one another and reinforce one another,

01:23:26 SPEAKER_006: such that the catalyst of a mental and emotional nature may show up in the body.

01:23:35 SPEAKER_006: That is, the body may react to the cat.

01:23:53 SPEAKER_006: Body may react to the catalyst of a mental nature, which is not being processed, such that such a less than conscious being is at risk of victimhood, of disempowering the self's ability to use catalysts,

01:24:30 SPEAKER_006: such that the live within this has the one known has Eckhart Toll has described, pain body, activating it, energizing it, and projecting that pain out.

01:24:52 SPEAKER_006: And projecting that pain outwards, and a lack of self-responsibility onto others.

01:25:14 SPEAKER_003: But there, but many are the avoidance mechanisms and the elaborate, intricate pathways that the mind can manage to play the futile and illusory game of keeping one free of suffering and pain of all types.

01:25:41 SPEAKER_003: It is the work of the positively orienting entity to discover these avoid.

01:26:04 SPEAKER_003: To discover these avoidance mechanisms, which we find in virtually all third density beings, not so that one may gluttonously suffer, shall we say, but so that one may discover and know the full, integrated,

01:26:28 SPEAKER_003: holistic self, which necessarily includes the shadow side of oneself, those areas which the conscious mind has placed barriers to knowing and perceiving and loving.

01:26:45 SPEAKER_003: barriers that, until the work is done,

01:26:50 SPEAKER_006: are invisible to the self in one way or another, filtering the perception behind the scenes.

01:27:12 SPEAKER_006: Thus, it takes work, whether that be through the various modes of therapy available to those of your planet, or the meditation, or the journaling,

01:27:29 SPEAKER_006: or any means by which one may hold up the mirror to the self and introspect and.

01:27:39 SPEAKER_006: Inspect and analyze and listen in silence.

01:27:43 SPEAKER_004: All right, all right, cool.

01:27:46 SPEAKER_004: Anyone have anything?

01:27:50 SPEAKER_006: Response: I like that we used Eckhart Tolle in there.

01:28:05 SPEAKER_006: Yeah, I've I've heard him talk about the pain body, so I know he what he's talking about.

01:28:20 SPEAKER_006: Could you explain more about the pain body ability?

01:28:29 SPEAKER_006: Well, you you know your body. experiences pain, and then you know.

01:28:44 SPEAKER_006: I think a lot of times when Eckhart Tolle talks about it, you start getting so immersed in your own pain that you kind of quit to stop being present.

01:29:05 SPEAKER_006: You know, because if you go into most of Eckhart Tolle stuff, he's always getting back to being present.

01:29:16 SPEAKER_006: Right.

01:29:17 SPEAKER_006: Yeah.

01:29:26 SPEAKER_006: So, so the pain body kind of takes you out of being present, and and you know. what it says.

01:29:39 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, it says such such a less than conscious being is at risk of victimhood of disempowering the self's ability to use catalyst.

01:29:55 SPEAKER_004: Such that they live within this as one known as Eckhart Tolle has described the pain body, activating it, energizing it, and projecting that pain outwards in a lack of self-responsibility unto others.

01:30:09 SPEAKER_004: So so you're so immersed in your pain. that you quit thinking of anybody else, and there's only you, and you're not present.

01:30:25 SPEAKER_006: It's just your pain, and and you're not you're not you know you're not you know using you're not processing the catalyst that's giving you.

01:30:45 SPEAKER_003: But but anytime you go to Eckerd Toll, that's where you know you really go to is present, being present.

01:31:00 SPEAKER_003: See for me, it kind of it kind of reminds me of like you know like the idea of like energy vampires, you know,

01:31:21 SPEAKER_003: people that you meet that they all they want to do is go like, oh, poor me, and then this horrible thing happened, and then that happened, and it was so bad,

01:31:37 SPEAKER_003: and it was so rubbish.

01:31:44 SPEAKER_001: Just like they feed on sympathy, you know.

01:31:55 SPEAKER_001: So like yeah, like they just talk like that all the time, you know.

01:32:12 SPEAKER_006: And there's only so much being nice and like you know whatever you can take before it just becomes draining, you know.

01:32:28 SPEAKER_006: Well, that phrase at the very end of that paragraph that says the that pain outwards and the lack of self responsibility unto others.

01:32:45 SPEAKER_006: So, if you're on the positive path, you have a attitude of self responsibility to others.

01:32:53 SPEAKER_006: You know, so you're talking about.

01:33:00 SPEAKER_006: So you're talking about you don't want to be a vampire to others.

01:33:13 SPEAKER_006: Yeah, you don't, you don't want to like, yeah, make suck away their happiness with your rubbishness or whatever.

01:33:32 SPEAKER_006: But it also makes me think of like that saying that like, um, like a lot of different like you know mental illnesses, can kind of make people seem like you know,

01:34:00 SPEAKER_004: self-obsessed or like you know like because they they can't get out of those pain loops that they get trapped in because of you know mental problem or whatever the trauma or whatever else.

01:34:16 SPEAKER_004: So they keep going around around in that loop and they can't get out of that.

01:34:31 SPEAKER_004: Loop and I can't get out of that to therefore kind of connect with other people and you know have normal conversation and all the other things that people do.

01:34:49 SPEAKER_004: You know, it's like they they get stuck and trapped in that little bubble of pain.

01:35:10 SPEAKER_004: You know, and and it really leads to the sinkhole more than anything else because you're such in that bubble, you can't make a decision to serve others or serve yourself.

01:35:28 SPEAKER_006: Yeah, because it's just reactive to the. environment.

01:35:38 SPEAKER_006: Right, you're just in this neutral state all the time because you're in this pain body.

01:35:42 SPEAKER_004: Right, right.

01:35:47 SPEAKER_004: Instead of being an agent, you know, creator or of the self.

01:35:51 SPEAKER_004: Yeah.

01:35:54 SPEAKER_004: Why we avoid suffering?

01:35:59 SPEAKER_004: A seeker may understand that suffering can become catalyst, yet still recoil from pain.

01:36:12 SPEAKER_004: Cool begins by placing the struggle, struggle in a compassionate frame.

01:36:21 SPEAKER_001: spiritual growth happens through a body with an ancient survival inheritance.

01:36:30 SPEAKER_001: The development of the entity within the third density has this biological origin, which informs and helps to structure the nature of the mind and its relationship to catalyst, particularly that of suffering.

01:36:43 SPEAKER_004: Avoidance is more than weakness.

01:36:47 SPEAKER_004: The body learns survival long before the conscious seeker learns reflection.

01:36:53 SPEAKER_004: The ancient body, Koo describes the physical body.

01:36:59 SPEAKER_004: Who describes the physical body as the carrier of a long evolutionary memory?

01:37:08 SPEAKER_004: Your body carries it in it a very long and ancient story over the course of eons of your time.

01:37:17 SPEAKER_004: The body learned how to find food, avoid predators, protect offspring, and respond to danger.

01:37:22 SPEAKER_004: Its first movement is often protection.

01:37:24 SPEAKER_004: Ed, go ahead.

01:37:36 SPEAKER_004: I was just going to say there's a bit coming up in a minute that I was going to mention where it talks about. how your body reacts, like so, like you know,

01:37:46 SPEAKER_004: if you get your hand close to a flame, yeah,

01:38:02 SPEAKER_004: your hand will pull away quicker than the time it takes for the message to go all the way up your arm to your brain and then the way back down to tell your arm to

01:38:10 SPEAKER_004: pull away.

01:38:17 SPEAKER_010: But that's that's really because they say it's like the body's wisdom, kind of in the thing.

01:38:33 SPEAKER_010: But yeah, you've got interneuron responses in the body that so when it hits a threshold, your body reacts without the brain needing to kick in.

01:38:45 SPEAKER_004: But you know, that's it's more of a segmental thing, so I suppose.

01:38:48 SPEAKER_004: Segmental things, I suppose.

01:38:51 SPEAKER_004: Sorry, I'm getting all like biology geek about it.

01:38:54 SPEAKER_004: But sorry.

01:38:55 SPEAKER_004: Okay, fair enough.

01:38:58 SPEAKER_004: Okay, thank you for your contribution.

01:39:01 SPEAKER_004: Yes, pain as instruction.

01:39:04 SPEAKER_004: At the bodily level, pain has intelligence.

01:39:06 SPEAKER_004: Teaches the organism what threatens life.

01:39:13 SPEAKER_004: There's a biological recoiling from experience of pain, an important signal or point of instruction that tells them about their environment and what's to be avoided.

01:39:27 SPEAKER_004: This is useful when the body meets fire. injury, or danger, pain becomes a messenger.

01:39:37 SPEAKER_004: But in third density, pain becomes entangled with memory, identity, imagination, and meaning.

01:39:45 SPEAKER_004: The signal becomes a story.

01:39:47 SPEAKER_004: Okay, gonna jump in again.

01:39:48 SPEAKER_004: Yes, yes.

01:39:51 SPEAKER_004: This is you know like the the double arrow that was talking about.

01:39:55 SPEAKER_004: Yes, and so like there's this whole thing about you know like trauma and that.

01:40:00 SPEAKER_004: So when you go through something, you know, you have an emotional response to that thing happening.

01:40:00 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, and. the emotional response is there to help you deal with that thing at the time when it's happening, right?

01:40:00 SPEAKER_004: So you only actually have that emotional response for about a minute and a half, two minutes, right?

01:40:00 SPEAKER_004: And then after that, you know, the the chemicals change, and you go and do whatever.

01:40:01 SPEAKER_004: Now, if after that two minutes, three minutes, or whatever, you carry on having that emotional response, you're only having that emotional response because of the fact you're reliving the event in your head,

01:40:01 SPEAKER_004: and you're causing yourself to re-activate that same feeling.

01:40:02 SPEAKER_004: Activate that same feeling, so that's why a lot of people, when they kind of vent about stuff, it gets them straight back to the place where they were,

01:40:02 SPEAKER_004: or like you know when when you're kind of like going over something in your head instead of kind of dealing with it, you just end up getting yourself upset.

01:40:03 SPEAKER_004: That's how PTSD works, you know.

01:40:03 SPEAKER_004: The trauma's so big that as soon as they they think about it, they're back in that place and the bombs are going off all around them or whatever, you know.

01:40:03 SPEAKER_004: So, you know, like that that that that that is 100 a real you know way that you know that the brain deals with.

01:40:04 SPEAKER_004: Your brain deals with those things, you know.

01:40:04 SPEAKER_004: Like, uh, yeah, that's just good.

01:40:04 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, sorry.

01:40:04 SPEAKER_004: I hope that.

01:40:04 SPEAKER_004: Yes, yeah.

01:40:05 SPEAKER_004: You're you're you're constantly reinforcing that the the the future proves the past.

01:40:06 SPEAKER_004: That what what's happening, you know, especially with trauma.

01:40:06 SPEAKER_004: That's what if you have such bad trauma, you don't get over it.

01:40:06 SPEAKER_004: The your future, you're always going to be looking like looking forward to.

01:40:07 SPEAKER_004: Oh, that trauma is going to come again.

01:40:07 SPEAKER_004: so the past is going to prove the future.

01:40:07 SPEAKER_004: That's it.

01:40:07 SPEAKER_004: Like the the the point.

01:40:07 SPEAKER_004: You're not you're not opening yourself up to new possibilities, and and and and you're not, frankly, living in faith that all is well, too.

01:40:07 SPEAKER_004: So it's a subtle.

01:40:08 SPEAKER_004: I fully agree.

01:40:08 SPEAKER_004: Sorry, I was.

01:40:08 SPEAKER_004: I just remember I was going to say at the end is is the whole point is that that if you're if you do go into this kind of sinkhole of. you know,

01:40:08 SPEAKER_004: beating yourself or going over these things over and over again.

01:40:08 SPEAKER_004: You are doing it to yourself because that emotional response was only there to deal with that situation at that time.

01:40:09 SPEAKER_004: So the more that you think about it, the more you build up that pathway.

01:40:09 SPEAKER_004: The more that you cut yourself off and you let it control things.

01:40:09 SPEAKER_004: None of that's really necessary.

01:40:09 SPEAKER_004: That's all that what the mind has built out of that initial recall, like process.

01:40:09 SPEAKER_004: You know what I mean?

01:40:10 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, and I think sometimes I'm going to say sometimes it's necessary catalyst that's trying to you know teach you a certain lesson, and if it happens over and over again,

01:40:10 SPEAKER_004: then you're you're really trying to be taught the same lesson over and over again.

01:40:10 SPEAKER_004: So it's really you could see as you could see as you go through that one trauma, yeah, and then your mind is builds. that into something far worse, yeah.

01:40:10 SPEAKER_004: Because you go over it, over it, and over it.

01:40:10 SPEAKER_004: You know that's what I was saying about you reinforcing that feeling.

01:40:10 SPEAKER_004: You know, and then you could argue that every time you go over that thought, that's the same catalyst that you haven't dealt with.

01:40:10 SPEAKER_004: You haven't, you haven't balanced that.

01:40:11 SPEAKER_004: You haven't got, you haven't done the work on.

01:40:11 SPEAKER_004: So every single time that it goes over, it makes you feel that way.

01:40:11 SPEAKER_004: You know, that's you not having another opportunity to balance that catalyst, arguably.

01:40:12 SPEAKER_004: But you haven't balanced it if it keeps coming back again.

01:40:12 SPEAKER_004: Anyway, sorry, Andrew.

01:40:13 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, I just wanted to add that for all catalysts, the the lesson is always a choice.

01:40:14 SPEAKER_004: It's a choice of whether you wish to follow your anger, control, or forgiveness, love, and acceptance in this particular situation.

01:40:15 SPEAKER_004: And until you make that decision, it will continue to face you.

01:40:15 SPEAKER_004: So you you just have to. pick a side, as it were.

01:40:15 SPEAKER_004: And some of this pain trauma really, a lot of times people can't even figure out that it is catalyst that it is doing this.

01:40:15 SPEAKER_004: So there's not even the the initial recognition that this is what's going on.

01:40:17 SPEAKER_004: Yes, yes.

01:40:17 SPEAKER_004: Some people are kind of lost in a reactive loop where they have a narrative that they. are helpless, and that this happened to them, and oh, those people!

01:40:17 SPEAKER_004: I have these resentments, and it creates a story.

01:40:17 SPEAKER_004: Like here, we can read this thing: the storytelling mind.

01:40:17 SPEAKER_004: Who names the mind as the place where pain becomes suffering?

01:40:18 SPEAKER_004: It gets complex and complicated when this biological basis is intertwined with the mind complex, the storytelling complex, the identity-making complex, which.

01:40:18 SPEAKER_004: Making complex, which finds meaning in pain, the mind interprets it, interprets it, and says, "This always happens to me.

01:40:19 SPEAKER_004: I am unsafe.

01:40:20 SPEAKER_004: I am unloved.

01:40:21 SPEAKER_004: This proves who I am."

01:40:21 SPEAKER_004: Pain becomes a story.

01:40:21 SPEAKER_004: The story becomes a pattern.

01:40:21 SPEAKER_004: The pattern becomes a lens.

01:40:22 SPEAKER_004: The layers of pain that the mind creates, which one may call suffering of an emotional or mental nature, can be amplified.

01:40:22 SPEAKER_004: The body may pull away from fire.

01:40:22 SPEAKER_004: The mind may learn to pull away from grief, shame, intimacy, conflict, truth, or the memory of being wounded.

01:40:23 SPEAKER_004: Yes, and I think I guess that dovetails into avoidance as a habit.

01:40:23 SPEAKER_004: What begins as protection can become avoidance.

01:40:24 SPEAKER_004: This mind, informed by that basic rudimentary impulse to run away from pain can make a habit of this in one's mental patterns, and and that is that avoidance of catalyst.

01:40:24 SPEAKER_004: A painful emotion arises, and the self distracts, blames, numbs, withdraws, rationalizes, spiritualizes, or attacks.

01:40:25 SPEAKER_004: The original wound remains unseen.

01:40:25 SPEAKER_004: Kuo carefully distinguishes influence from imprisonment.

01:40:25 SPEAKER_004: This biological basis can influence and. form, but this biological basis is not necessarily causal.

01:40:25 SPEAKER_004: The body may incline itself toward avoidance, but consciousness can choose.

01:40:26 SPEAKER_004: The will can be trained.

01:40:26 SPEAKER_004: A reaction can become a doorway.

01:40:27 SPEAKER_004: Consciousness.

01:40:27 SPEAKER_004: So yeah, I'm sure you guys have seen this avoidance as a habit business, because that's why it loops. loops.

01:40:28 SPEAKER_004: Because people avoid it.

01:40:28 SPEAKER_004: Conscious catalyst.

01:40:28 SPEAKER_004: Kuo places responsibility within the consciousness itself.

01:40:28 SPEAKER_004: Responsibility exists principally within the mind complex and its use of the will and its capacity and intention to look at and face and process one's catalyst.

01:40:29 SPEAKER_004: This is demanding but empowering.

01:40:29 SPEAKER_004: The seeker needs willingness to look, to face, to process, and to bring love to what has been avoided.

01:40:29 SPEAKER_004: One.

01:40:29 SPEAKER_004: Has been avoided.

01:40:29 SPEAKER_004: When catalyst remains unconscious, it may speak through the body.

01:40:30 SPEAKER_004: The body may react to that catalyst of a mental nature, which is not being processed.

01:40:30 SPEAKER_004: Tension, fatigue, agitation, numbness—a reactivity may become messengers.

01:40:30 SPEAKER_004: The body is not the enemy; it may be reporting what the self has yet to love or understand.

01:40:30 SPEAKER_004: Yes, yes.

01:40:31 SPEAKER_004: So many diseases are exactly like that.

01:40:31 SPEAKER_004: They're like, hey. you know what?

01:40:32 SPEAKER_004: You haven't, you haven't processed this catalyst, and so you get a disease.

01:40:32 SPEAKER_004: And it's usually, if you look at the spiritual causes of a disease in that part of your region, part of your body, you will find that there's resentments in that part of your life,

01:40:32 SPEAKER_004: things like that.

01:40:33 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, I mean, not even, not even like as as as deep as like disease causing that, but I mean, like when you when I mean,

01:40:33 SPEAKER_004: I don't know if you're When you when I mean I don't know if any of you guys have been but like when you are really depressed like the the the the sensation of the emotional

01:40:34 SPEAKER_004: impact can hurt it can feel like pain you know how does that work you know how does an emotional reaction hurt but it does you know so I think that that's that's the same thing

01:40:34 SPEAKER_004: they're talking about like the the mind can literally take the emotional thing turn it into pain you know.

01:40:34 SPEAKER_004: Kuo warns that unprocessed pain can harden into identity.

01:40:35 SPEAKER_004: Such a less than conscious being is at risk of victimhood, of disempowering the self's ability to use catalysts, such that they live within this pain body.

01:40:35 SPEAKER_004: This does not deny real harm.

01:40:36 SPEAKER_004: People are wounded.

01:40:36 SPEAKER_004: Some injuries are deep and unjust.

01:40:37 SPEAKER_004: The warning is that pain can become the ruler of perception.

01:40:37 SPEAKER_004: The self may begin to see through. pain, speak from pain, project pain outward, while losing the power to use catalyst consciously.

01:40:37 SPEAKER_004: Many are the avoidance mechanisms.

01:40:37 SPEAKER_004: The mind can manage to play the futile and illusory game of keeping one free of suffering, and pain of all types.

01:40:37 SPEAKER_004: The incarnation cannot be made free of catalyst, but catalyst can be made conscious, and you can process that catalyst.

01:40:38 SPEAKER_004: I think that's the only way to be free. per se, but you're not really free of catalyst.

01:40:38 SPEAKER_004: You just get more catalyst.

01:40:38 SPEAKER_004: But if you get good at processing it, you know it becomes enjoyable, more like surfing on the wave.

01:40:38 SPEAKER_004: The shadow and the mirror.

01:40:38 SPEAKER_004: The positive seeker does not face suffering in order to suffer more.

01:40:39 SPEAKER_004: The point is hopeless.

01:40:39 SPEAKER_004: It is the work of the positively oriented entity to discover these avoidance mechanisms, not so that one may glutinously suffer, but so that one may discover and know the full integrated holistic self,

01:40:39 SPEAKER_004: the whole self includes the shadows, the hidden places where fear, grief, shame, anger, resentment, need, and pain have been placed behind inner barriers.

01:40:39 SPEAKER_004: Those areas which the conscious mind has placed barriers to knowing and perceiving and loving.

01:40:41 SPEAKER_004: I think this is this is a really critical point here because this is also one of those positive greetings.

01:40:41 SPEAKER_004: So I know. that, like a few years back, I was having you know my negative grieving experiences, and one of the most effective things is to recognize it as a part of the self,

01:40:41 SPEAKER_004: as part of the infinite creator, and to integrate and say we are one, we are whole, and to to have deep compassion for that part of ourselves, and just just share.

01:40:42 SPEAKER_004: Just, just sharing that love and unity, and to grow in service to others, and to thank in gratitude that they are reminding you to continue the path of love and life by showing a contrast,

01:40:42 SPEAKER_004: and that there are unhealed portions of the self that need love and care and peace for more hummus.

01:40:42 SPEAKER_004: Those areas which the conscious mind has placed barriers to know.

01:40:43 SPEAKER_004: Mind has placed barriers to knowing and perceiving and loving.

01:40:43 SPEAKER_004: All right, Ku ends with a practical counsel.

01:40:43 SPEAKER_004: This work can happen through any honest mirror.

01:40:43 SPEAKER_004: It takes work through the various modes of therapy, or the meditation, or the journaling,

01:40:44 SPEAKER_004: or any means by which one may hold up the mirror to the self and introspect and analyze and listen to the silence.

01:40:44 SPEAKER_004: The body carries an ancient story, but consciousness can respond in a new way.

01:40:44 SPEAKER_004: Pain may be a signal.

01:40:45 SPEAKER_004: Suffering may be amplified by mind.

01:40:46 SPEAKER_004: Avoidance may be had it.

01:40:46 SPEAKER_004: Yet catalyst faced with will and faith become doorway to integration.

01:40:46 SPEAKER_004: Alright, so I guess you guys all muted yourself.

01:40:47 SPEAKER_004: It's all quiet.

01:40:47 SPEAKER_004: Are you guys still there?

01:40:47 SPEAKER_004: Yes.

01:40:48 SPEAKER_004: Okay, great.

01:40:48 SPEAKER_004: Okay, because sometimes this it looks like. everyone's butted in and is broken.

01:40:49 SPEAKER_004: Okay, okay.

01:40:49 SPEAKER_004: So I believe Ashley is reading the next one.

01:40:49 SPEAKER_004: Okay, that's cool.

01:40:49 SPEAKER_004: I got a question from a reader named A, and if there is space, there will be a follow-up to this question.

01:40:50 SPEAKER_004: If not, no worries.

01:40:50 SPEAKER_004: A writes: I recently, within the last three years, have lost two beloved ones to suicide.

01:40:51 SPEAKER_004: How can one learn from these experiences and help those around?

01:40:51 SPEAKER_004: I am Q'uo, and am aware of your query, my brother.

01:40:51 SPEAKER_004: We send our great sympathies to you for having lost those nearest and dearest to you by their own hand, committing suicide.

01:40:51 SPEAKER_004: This is a problem which has become more prevalent as your third density enters the end of its seventy-five thousand year cycle,

01:40:52 SPEAKER_004: and the chance to make choices of service to others and service to self are enhanced by various difficulties upon the surface of your planet, within the communities on your planet, where polarities are manifested, political,

01:40:52 SPEAKER_004: economical, and other ways of your mundane world that have seemed to come apart at the seams.

01:40:52 SPEAKER_004: It is a difficult place to be for anyone, and to deal with this type of death by one's own hand, we correct this instrument from one you love most dearly.

01:40:52 SPEAKER_004: We suggest that you look within your meditative state at the last days of your relationship with these loved ones,

01:40:53 SPEAKER_004: seeing the good times and the bad times as that which occurred because there was apparently no other choice that could have been made.

01:40:53 SPEAKER_004: You know that you did all that you could, but when one is dealing with suicide, one is dealing with an entity that has forgotten its purpose in this life, for some reason or other,

01:40:53 SPEAKER_004: might have been beyond its control.

01:40:53 SPEAKER_004: The steps taken to take one's own life then were not something that you could change.

01:40:53 SPEAKER_004: This is a path that has been chosen for a reason that will only be known when the life of the one who took suicide is revealed.

01:40:54 SPEAKER_004: Suicide is reviewed with their higher self and guides.

01:40:54 SPEAKER_004: Know that this entity or these entities will receive information that will inspire them to come back and try again.

01:40:54 SPEAKER_004: Perhaps as somebody that you will know in your future as a youngster.

01:40:55 SPEAKER_004: Perhaps there will be a cohesiveness that will remind you, in a certain feeling, that there will be a relationship again, whether in this life. or another life, for all of us travel in spiritual families,

01:40:55 SPEAKER_004: and we all play certain roles at some time or other.

01:40:55 SPEAKER_004: Perhaps we forget our lines, and yet there will come a time when all will be well.

01:40:56 SPEAKER_004: For indeed, that time is now.

01:40:56 SPEAKER_004: It is just so hard to see it.

01:40:56 SPEAKER_004: So we would suggest that in your meditations, you send love and light to those who are nearest and dearest. knowing that this love and light will help them to make another effort,

01:40:57 SPEAKER_004: to take the steps that were missed, and that in the end, there are truly no mistakes.

01:40:57 SPEAKER_004: Everything happens for reasons that we may or may not understand.

01:40:57 SPEAKER_004: For this is the third density, an illusion of confusion for all.

01:40:58 SPEAKER_004: Is there a follow-up prayer, my brother?

01:40:59 SPEAKER_004: Ready?

01:40:59 SPEAKER_004: Yes. that's a brief one.

01:41:00 SPEAKER_004: Let's follow up.

01:41:00 SPEAKER_004: Okay.

01:41:01 SPEAKER_004: No. That that's actually a pretty heavy response, especially when Cuo says apparently no other choice that could have been made.

01:41:02 SPEAKER_004: Well, apparently, is but remember it's the illusion, right?

01:41:02 SPEAKER_004: It says apparently because. there are no mistakes, right?

01:41:02 SPEAKER_004: So there's this, but there's this paradox where it's like, right?

01:41:02 SPEAKER_004: We we might consider suicide to be a deviation of what was meant to happen, a true mistake that that our other self didn't complete the incarnation, and yet because there are no. mistakes,

01:41:03 SPEAKER_004: we don't know if that was pre-incarnatively chosen that they would exit in this manner.

01:41:03 SPEAKER_004: That maybe they just needed to add the experience of leaving incarnation by their own hand, as their to add to their soul growth.

01:41:03 SPEAKER_004: But as those of close said, when they'll still have a life review, contrary to organized religion. they're not going to be just you know yeeted into the fiery pits of hell for committed suicide.

01:41:03 SPEAKER_004: They will have a life review, and they will know exactly why they did it and what went right or what went wrong or what went wrong right.

01:41:03 SPEAKER_004: You know, so all is well.

01:41:04 SPEAKER_004: And and who also said that they will come back.

01:41:04 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, they will be motivated. at least to come back.

01:41:04 SPEAKER_004: I just, I you where they left off.

01:41:04 SPEAKER_004: I just saw an NDE the other day, and the guy had his NDE when he was like three, and he totally remembers it.

01:41:05 SPEAKER_004: But one thing he remembered, he was coming off a lifetime before he had the this lifetime where he had the NDE when he was three, and in his previous lifetime, he said he committed suicide.

01:41:05 SPEAKER_004: So. he had his his guides and helpers kind of got him back on this this right track, and he's all.

01:41:06 SPEAKER_004: And then I kind of knew I I was doing something here where I'm trying to help make up for that.

01:41:06 SPEAKER_004: You know, life.

01:41:06 SPEAKER_004: I took took my own life, you know, because I I didn't finish what I wanted to.

01:41:06 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, but I thought I was interesting.

01:41:07 SPEAKER_004: And what I found is that often. people who die in a traumatic way remember their past lives more distinctly, especially when they're children.

01:41:07 SPEAKER_004: Well, this wasn't a memory.

01:41:07 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, this was an NDE.

01:41:07 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, I hear you.

01:41:07 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, yeah, but but yeah, the the past life thing still holds true.

01:41:08 SPEAKER_004: But but he said he he thought he got the NDE because he took his life and his life that his last life.

01:41:08 SPEAKER_001: Also, they wanted to kid him on the right.

01:41:08 SPEAKER_001: They wanted to get him on the right track.

01:41:08 SPEAKER_001: Yes, yes.

01:41:09 SPEAKER_001: So he didn't do it a second time.

01:41:10 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:41:10 SPEAKER_001: But he got it when he was like three.

01:41:11 SPEAKER_001: Yeah.

01:41:12 SPEAKER_001: Well, fair enough.

01:41:12 SPEAKER_001: They wanted him early on, you know.

01:41:12 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, not even really forming that, you know, idea, you know.

01:41:13 SPEAKER_001: And it's possible, you know, maybe, you know, even three years old.

01:41:14 SPEAKER_001: You know, they're called threeagers for a reason. there's the terrible twos, and then there's the teenagers.

01:41:14 SPEAKER_001: Oh wow, I'd never heard of that.

01:41:14 SPEAKER_001: You haven't?

01:41:14 SPEAKER_001: Well, you don't.

01:41:14 SPEAKER_001: You haven't had kids.

01:41:15 SPEAKER_001: But, yeah, teenagers.

01:41:16 SPEAKER_001: Teenagers.

01:41:17 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, they're kind of like mini teenagers, and they're like, no, I'm gonna do it.

01:41:17 SPEAKER_001: No, I get it.

01:41:18 SPEAKER_001: I've just never heard that word.

01:41:19 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, yeah.

01:41:19 SPEAKER_001: New for me.

01:41:20 SPEAKER_001: Cool, cool.

01:41:20 SPEAKER_001: It's a parenting term, I guess.

01:41:20 SPEAKER_001: By the time they're like four or five, it gets better, you know.

01:41:20 SPEAKER_001: And then by six, they're just like, "Oh wow, little angels."

01:41:21 SPEAKER_001: More.

01:41:21 SPEAKER_001: I mean, you still have to correct them every what four to six minutes, but it is what it is.

01:41:21 SPEAKER_001: That's just how being a parent is.

01:41:21 SPEAKER_001: Grief, suicide, and I was just going to say.

01:41:22 SPEAKER_001: the bit about that.

01:41:22 SPEAKER_001: That it said about, like you know, the people that that killed himself.

01:41:22 SPEAKER_001: Yeah.

01:41:23 SPEAKER_001: You know, yeah, it's it's not like a mistake or whatever.

01:41:23 SPEAKER_001: I think he said that it's because they they didn't find their path, they'd forgotten their purpose, they didn't know why they're here.

01:41:23 SPEAKER_001: You know, and I think a lot of the time that's like that's one of the curses of the Western world, isn't it?

01:41:24 SPEAKER_001: Like none of us have any philosophical reason why we're here, so it's very easy to kind of lose hope that way, right?

01:41:24 SPEAKER_001: So yeah, I totally get, I totally get what I mean.

01:41:24 SPEAKER_001: Like this is this this whole just really kind of a structure.

01:41:25 SPEAKER_001: It struck some bells for me.

01:41:25 SPEAKER_001: It's beautiful.

01:41:25 SPEAKER_001: Yeah, honestly, like I, I really love that about the Confederation teachings.

01:41:26 SPEAKER_001: Is like the understanding that everyone's purpose is to process catalyst.

01:41:26 SPEAKER_001: You know, and it's like you just devote yourself to that, and you're good.

01:41:26 SPEAKER_001: That's it.

01:41:26 SPEAKER_001: You know, but like you know, like we don't talk that, do we?

01:41:27 SPEAKER_001: We don't.

01:41:27 SPEAKER_001: No one shows you that, and how to live that way.

01:41:27 SPEAKER_001: Exactly.

01:41:28 SPEAKER_001: Exactly.

01:41:28 SPEAKER_001: Then you end up like in this, like you know.

01:41:29 SPEAKER_001: I mean, to find out, and if you don't find it, you know, then then life here could be probably unbearable.

01:41:29 SPEAKER_001: You know?

01:41:29 SPEAKER_004: Yeah.

01:41:29 SPEAKER_004: Yeah.

01:41:30 SPEAKER_004: Right.

01:41:30 SPEAKER_004: So that's that's why it said that's why it said you know that like they didn't really have a choice at that point.

01:41:30 SPEAKER_004: They they they'd never found the path right.

01:41:31 SPEAKER_004: They'd never found their place.

01:41:31 SPEAKER_004: You know?

01:41:32 SPEAKER_004: Yeah.

01:41:32 SPEAKER_004: There's no mistakes.

01:41:33 SPEAKER_004: Yeah.

01:41:33 SPEAKER_004: But there are surprises, right?

01:41:34 SPEAKER_004: You know, they might have planned to come here with the full intention of doing some spiritual work and like you know doing whatever,

01:41:34 SPEAKER_004: but then they got to like thirty five and they realized they yeah.

01:41:34 SPEAKER_004: They realize they, you know, they have no idea why they're here.

01:41:35 SPEAKER_004: They haven't done anything that they feel like they were meant to, and and you know, suicide might seem like the, not like the, the way out or whatever, but like you know, like the pre-incarnative.

01:41:35 SPEAKER_004: Okay, you've got to hear and you fucked it up.

01:41:35 SPEAKER_004: Get out, start again, you know.

01:41:35 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, and you know, in Canada, it's just so easy because there's medical assistance in dying, right?

01:41:35 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, that's it.

01:41:36 SPEAKER_004: You can have those suicide booths, you know, like from Futurama. you have those.

01:41:36 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, it's kind of like that.

01:41:37 SPEAKER_004: Vaporizes you.

01:41:37 SPEAKER_004: You know, no one's no one's wiser.

01:41:37 SPEAKER_004: Easy, something like that.

01:41:37 SPEAKER_004: You know, and and literally, when it comes to that, you know, people that do it literally see no other option, no other way out.

01:41:38 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, it's because you know, like in Canada, overwhelming.

01:41:38 SPEAKER_004: A lot of people who are like so-called middle class are working three jobs just to keep a roof over their. head, and maybe, maybe some food on the table.

01:41:38 SPEAKER_004: You know, but plenty of them are also going to soup kitchens, even with three jobs.

01:41:39 SPEAKER_004: Anyway, can I just say, right, as somebody who has survived a suicide attempt, I'm really, really glad that it is not an institutionalized thing that you could just go in and actually it just happened.

01:41:39 SPEAKER_004: Because you know, the instant I stepped off the bridge, I didn't want to die.

01:41:39 SPEAKER_004: I regretted every single fucking stupid, pointless thing that led me there, and.

01:41:40 SPEAKER_004: I knew that I didn't want to.

01:41:40 SPEAKER_004: And you know, when I survived, I I would never felt more like I wanted to live my whole life, and I'd never go back to doing that again,

01:41:40 SPEAKER_004: because of the fact that I know that that is not the way to do it.

01:41:40 SPEAKER_004: That will, you know.

01:41:40 SPEAKER_004: So, yeah, I don't, I don't firmly, I don't particularly agree with it, unless that there's absolute levels of suffering that can't be stopped.

01:41:41 SPEAKER_004: You know.

01:41:41 SPEAKER_004: Yeah.

01:41:42 SPEAKER_004: No, I hear you, and I believe that it can be fixed.

01:41:42 SPEAKER_004: It has to do with society. repairing itself or being repaired,

01:41:42 SPEAKER_004: so that there are believable paths forward for people that don't require you know three jobs for the basic necessities of life. the The Dutch just the other day euthanized a twelve year old because they

01:41:42 SPEAKER_004: didn't have say you know and they you know and over there and I think in Canada they can. do it down to like babies.

01:41:43 SPEAKER_004: I don't know if they've approved it for babies yet, but they're definitely talking about it.

01:41:43 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, I think for each of those individuals, though the the pre-incarnative angle still applies.

01:41:44 SPEAKER_004: Oh yeah, it's medically assisted.

01:41:44 SPEAKER_004: They, in some way, orchestrated that theme to to be expressed, and if. they didn't, for whatever reason, it's not going to stop their overall evolution because they'll just come back, as we learned.

01:41:45 SPEAKER_004: So you know, there's what I get from that is like, how what are we doing as a society?

01:41:45 SPEAKER_004: What's our what's our value?

01:41:45 SPEAKER_004: How we look at things?

01:41:45 SPEAKER_004: You know, what do we actually think of life?

01:41:46 SPEAKER_004: You know, I mean, because I mean. that little girl that was 12, they euthanized.

01:41:46 SPEAKER_004: You know, I she she made it made it die naturally, like in another six months.

01:41:46 SPEAKER_004: But that could have been another six months where she actually gave an opportunity to a bunch of people to serve her.

01:41:46 SPEAKER_004: You know, so so what are we what are we what are we doing?

01:41:46 SPEAKER_004: If she was in, well, there's a lot that we're not doing.

01:41:47 SPEAKER_004: That's just one small part of a bigger. thing of things we aren't doing, but I feel that if she was ill, then six months of a slow, agonizing death is cruelty,

01:41:47 SPEAKER_004: and we're saying that she could have been served by people.

01:41:47 SPEAKER_004: She is she's an individual being.

01:41:47 SPEAKER_004: She has the right to not want to have be a have others serve her. in that way if it means she's going to suffer.

01:41:47 SPEAKER_004: We don't know necessarily that those six months would have been a good six months.

01:41:48 SPEAKER_004: And there's a lot more than medically assisted termination of.

01:41:48 SPEAKER_004: Well, there's a lot going on here, but then how are we collectively looking at suffering, and what does that really mean?

01:41:48 SPEAKER_004: That goes.

01:41:48 SPEAKER_004: This has to do with the individual.

01:41:49 SPEAKER_004: There's no one.

01:41:49 SPEAKER_004: It's not only the individual; it affects everybody.

01:41:49 SPEAKER_004: Yes, but this is a system that has many moving parts, and this particular thing—the medically assisted dying—it is not everywhere,

01:41:50 SPEAKER_004: and I feel that it is beneficial if there is. no other option for the individual, as far as terminal illness and they're in extreme pain, basically suffering, then they have that right.

01:41:50 SPEAKER_004: It's not like they're being forced to.

01:41:50 SPEAKER_004: That that would be murder.

01:41:50 SPEAKER_004: There's always other reasons behind it.

01:41:50 SPEAKER_004: Go ahead, Andre.

01:41:50 SPEAKER_004: So yeah, I just wanted to bring in also overdose.

01:41:51 SPEAKER_004: Also, overdoses, you know, because as you're probably aware, there's a massive homelessness and drug addiction crises all over the West, especially in the and North, you know, North American general.

01:41:52 SPEAKER_004: And how I see it, at least in my compassion for these people,

01:41:52 SPEAKER_004: is that they are exactly at a point where they've run out of options. because you know society has told them you know there isn't a job that they can do that will get a roof

01:41:52 SPEAKER_004: over their head or food on their face,

01:41:53 SPEAKER_004: and they feel that the best thing they can do for society is to escape and to not be a burden on society, and so they you know migrate towards others.

01:41:53 SPEAKER_004: So that's their way of being service to others, and it is something that reflects society as a whole in terms of that we are not providing opportunities for these people.

01:41:53 SPEAKER_004: And yeah, I was just going to say that one about the whole assisted suicide thing.

01:41:53 SPEAKER_004: I agree that cruelty should like if it is.

01:41:54 SPEAKER_004: You know, if it is if it is just a case of suffering, then it should be an option.

01:41:54 SPEAKER_004: But there's something that I think it was Socrates said, and it was you can help a man with his burden, but you should never take it from him.

01:41:54 SPEAKER_004: You know, maybe there's a reason why they're going through those pains in that way, through that illness, you know, karmic burden or whatever else.

01:41:55 SPEAKER_004: We we don't really know.

01:41:55 SPEAKER_004: So, you know, who are we to say that that that that we should make those choices anyway?

01:41:55 SPEAKER_004: That's just one thing.

01:41:55 SPEAKER_004: The other thing I was going to say was, I think that that that that they gave us the answer inside that whole kind of thing quite well,

01:41:55 SPEAKER_004: where they said the reason that these people are doing this, yeah, is because they don't know their purpose.

01:41:55 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, the real problem with society is that we've lost all spiritual kind of, you know, meaning.

01:41:56 SPEAKER_004: So these people are slipping through the net.

01:41:57 SPEAKER_004: They should be given a reason, have a purpose, have something that that keeps them whole.

01:41:57 SPEAKER_004: And you know, if if they don't get the opportunity, they don't find that place, then then these these things are going to happen, right?

01:41:59 SPEAKER_004: And so I'd argue that the problem with society is not not having enough awareness so that people can find their place and enough support and love in amongst all of it to make it work,

01:41:59 SPEAKER_004: you know?

01:42:00 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, for sure.

01:42:00 SPEAKER_004: That's a global, a global issue—the disconnect with the spiritual nature of our being, which would reveal our purpose to us.

01:42:00 SPEAKER_004: Just want to call to mind that I don't believe that those who are overdosing are being service to others by overdosing.

01:42:00 SPEAKER_004: That line doesn't resonate with me.

01:42:02 SPEAKER_004: However, what I will say is, the every one of these individuals are the one infinite creator.

01:42:03 SPEAKER_004: So they have the same things that we do.

01:42:04 SPEAKER_004: They have millions of incarnations where they've learned and grown, and they have a mind, body, spirit totality, a mid-six density.

01:42:04 SPEAKER_004: Six density version of themselves that is working with them in order to expand and evolve the totality of their soul by racking up as much experience through these incarnations through these expressions,

01:42:04 SPEAKER_004: so that intelligent infinity can further express and experience itself as all that is becoming all that is as all that is.

01:42:05 SPEAKER_004: So on the one hand, yes, there are systems all over in this as a planet that really don't make it easy for us, plus the veil, make it easy for us to find our purpose,

01:42:05 SPEAKER_004: to awaken to the role we came here to play.

01:42:05 SPEAKER_004: But even at that level, we still come in with certain reincarnative templates already in activation.

01:42:06 SPEAKER_004: It's already an activation and a full host of metaphysical supports.

01:42:06 SPEAKER_004: So, yes, these other selves we see them as like tragedies and it's painful, and it does reflect on the nature of our world of human civilization.

01:42:07 SPEAKER_004: And it's just that's just one small piece.

01:42:07 SPEAKER_004: There's so many other things systemically that are wrong. but in the end, that's still intelligent infinity having an experience.

01:42:07 SPEAKER_004: So they are still finding their purpose.

01:42:07 SPEAKER_004: They are still going to evolve.

01:42:08 SPEAKER_004: They are still going to have all that they need to have.

01:42:08 SPEAKER_004: It's not like the end for them because they committed suicide or because the system of Earth stuck.

01:42:08 SPEAKER_004: Or sucks.

01:42:09 SPEAKER_004: Well, it's not, but the the humanity system civilization game we've set up sucks.

01:42:09 SPEAKER_004: That may be the case, but the evolution still continues.

01:42:10 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, I mean, no question, all that's true.

01:42:10 SPEAKER_004: But I would just you know have everybody you know use caution as they go down these these roads.

01:42:10 SPEAKER_004: These slippery slopes, because we already live on a planet where we view a lot of ways life as very very cheap,

01:42:10 SPEAKER_004: and we aren't as grateful and as yeah yeah thankful to the life we have right now.

01:42:10 SPEAKER_004: So it's a it's a delicate balance, you know, and and you know, I kind of you know killing something out of compassion is a Passion is a kind of a mind blower to me,

01:42:11 SPEAKER_004: but you know, people are going to do what what they're going to do, and you know.

01:42:11 SPEAKER_004: But no doubt, spiritual evolution continues.

01:42:11 SPEAKER_004: It's just a question for this place right now.

01:42:11 SPEAKER_004: I was just going to say, Bill, that you know, you you doing the whole kind of like Genghis Khan thing, you know, like if I turn up at your city,

01:42:11 SPEAKER_004: then God wants you to die.

01:42:12 SPEAKER_004: It. is what it is.

01:42:13 SPEAKER_004: Well, yeah, get the hell of an attitude.

01:42:13 SPEAKER_004: If you think about it, there's millions of people all over the billions, actually, of people all over the world, and why do these specific individuals leave through medically assisted suicide or or suicide in general?

01:42:13 SPEAKER_004: If you really weren't supposed to, or if it was really an absolute deal breaker for your incarnation to exit through self termination, whether you get help from medical doctors,

01:42:13 SPEAKER_004: you approach them and and and set up the process to do that, or whether you took it into your own hands directly, if that was not, if that was a deal breaker for your incarnation,

01:42:14 SPEAKER_004: it would not happen.

01:42:14 SPEAKER_004: Like if you you see people who have these. near-death experiences, where by all rights they should be dead, they should.

01:42:15 SPEAKER_004: People getting struck by lightning several times and still walking away.

01:42:15 SPEAKER_004: People getting run over and still walking away with light scratches.

01:42:16 SPEAKER_004: If you are not meant to exit, falling off a forty-foot bridge, hitting the water like a belly flop, bruising the entire front of me, twisting my ankle.

01:42:16 SPEAKER_004: That's basically what happened.

01:42:17 SPEAKER_004: If you are not meant to exit the incarnation, it doesn't matter what method you use yourself.

01:42:17 SPEAKER_004: You will still be here.

01:42:17 SPEAKER_004: So there's another part of me that's like, well, how?

01:42:18 SPEAKER_004: It isn't everybody that just dies when they want to die.

01:42:18 SPEAKER_004: It it's everything is actually divinely oriented in a certain meta cosmic. pattern.

01:42:18 SPEAKER_004: If you're not supposed to leave through suicide, you will not leave, no matter how hard you try.

01:42:18 SPEAKER_004: It'll, it won't work.

01:42:19 SPEAKER_004: You'll just keep hurting yourself, and then eventually you'll be like, "Why won't I die?"

01:42:19 SPEAKER_004: And then hopefully you have the experience, like Ed, that hey, I think I want to do this living thing, you know, and and so there's that basically what happened.

01:42:19 SPEAKER_004: It wasn't your time.

01:42:19 SPEAKER_004: You you tried it, but it didn't work.

01:42:20 SPEAKER_004: Now someone else down the block, different life, it might have worked for them.

01:42:20 SPEAKER_004: So if it worked for them, but didn't work for you, and you both attempted it, what was the difference?

01:42:21 SPEAKER_004: Pre-incarnative setups.

01:42:21 SPEAKER_004: One was a deal breaker.

01:42:24 SPEAKER_004: Look, no, we are not exiting through self-termination.

01:42:25 SPEAKER_004: Period.

01:42:25 SPEAKER_004: You can try, but it's not going to. be an activation.

01:42:25 SPEAKER_004: But for others, it was never put in there, so that option was open for them.

01:42:26 SPEAKER_004: Does this make sense?

01:42:26 SPEAKER_004: This concept?

01:42:26 SPEAKER_004: Well, a hundred and fifty percent.

01:42:26 SPEAKER_004: Like, in fact, I thought about it before earlier on.

01:42:26 SPEAKER_004: I don't know whether you're here for the first question.

01:42:26 SPEAKER_004: It was talking about kind of like looking back over your life and seeing all these things, and like they had to, you know, and you needed this thing to happen for that thing.

01:42:27 SPEAKER_004: All they all lined.

01:42:27 SPEAKER_004: For that thing, or they all line up to give you this full picture that you needed to go through.

01:42:27 SPEAKER_004: That was 100 something I needed to go through, and it did make me feel because, you know, I say that I didn't ever want to do it again after stepping off the bridge.

01:42:27 SPEAKER_004: There were other points when you know I was particularly low, and you know I have had that thing of like, what the hell?

01:42:28 SPEAKER_004: Why can't I die?

01:42:28 SPEAKER_004: You know, yeah.

01:42:28 SPEAKER_004: I've had car crashes.

01:42:29 SPEAKER_004: I've I've got you know I've got I've I've had tons and tons and tons of stuff where I should have died, and I'm literally like, wow.

01:42:30 SPEAKER_004: And I'm actually like, wow.

01:42:30 SPEAKER_004: Okay, that was that was cool.

01:42:30 SPEAKER_004: Well, you had to be here, Ed.

01:42:31 SPEAKER_004: I'm glad you're here to be here.

01:42:31 SPEAKER_004: Exactly, exactly.

01:42:32 SPEAKER_004: It would.

01:42:32 SPEAKER_004: You're not meant to go.

01:42:32 SPEAKER_004: It's not.

01:42:33 SPEAKER_004: It's not in your.

01:42:33 SPEAKER_004: That's a deal breaker in your pre-incarnative template.

01:42:33 SPEAKER_004: You cannot leave through those ways.

01:42:33 SPEAKER_004: Well, Kulo Kulo kind of gave the answer, kind of what you're talking about when they said.

01:42:33 SPEAKER_004: "This is a path that has been chosen for a reason that will only be known when the life of the one who took suicide is reviewed with their higher self."

01:42:34 SPEAKER_004: Yes.

01:42:34 SPEAKER_004: Yeah.

01:42:35 SPEAKER_004: One hundred percent.

01:42:35 SPEAKER_004: All use of life.

01:42:35 SPEAKER_004: And that's you're going to work out why after.

01:42:35 SPEAKER_004: And that becomes an acceptance thing, you know.

01:42:36 SPEAKER_004: But but still, we like living on this planet at this time.

01:42:36 SPEAKER_004: You know, we grapple with you know depression.

01:42:36 SPEAKER_004: You know the preciousness of life.

01:42:37 SPEAKER_004: You know how much you know.

01:42:37 SPEAKER_004: Do you want to?

01:42:37 SPEAKER_004: I mean, I tried to save little tiny birds that fell out of the tree, and it's like, you know, unless they have their mom, they're gonna, you know, it doesn't work.

01:42:37 SPEAKER_004: You know.

01:42:37 SPEAKER_004: So how precious life.

01:42:37 SPEAKER_004: Let's read the last one here too, just because we're we're getting short on time.

01:42:38 SPEAKER_004: Yes, thanks, Google.

01:42:38 SPEAKER_004: Is there one, uh, way one can contact those deceased loved ones?

01:42:38 SPEAKER_004: Is there way one can determine where those loved ones may be or their current journey?

01:42:38 SPEAKER_004: Go ahead and read it, Ashley, if you will.

01:42:40 SPEAKER_004: Okay.

01:42:40 SPEAKER_004: I am Q'uo, and I am aware of your query, my brother.

01:42:40 SPEAKER_004: We would suggest two possibilities.

01:42:41 SPEAKER_004: The first being in your meditation. set your intention to make this contact, and then wait.

01:42:42 SPEAKER_004: And if you feel any presence, embrace it with your love, and ask if there might be a message that could be delivered to you to let you know that all is well.

01:42:42 SPEAKER_004: For indeed, that is the truth.

01:42:42 SPEAKER_004: The other suggestion would be to give your higher self, or your subconscious mind, or guides, the dreams in your sleep that will be. communications from those who are on the other side of the veil.

01:42:42 SPEAKER_004: They will give you what is that which is most important to you to hear.

01:42:42 SPEAKER_004: Do this repeatedly, so that those beings that can help you know how much you need to hear from your loved ones.

01:42:43 SPEAKER_004: At this time,

01:42:43 SPEAKER_004: we would thank each beautiful being within this dwelling place for sharing your heart and making connections with those around you. that may take you together into the future of spiritual journeys that we all share

01:42:43 SPEAKER_004: in one way or another.

01:42:44 SPEAKER_004: This group has shared so authentically in every respect.

01:42:44 SPEAKER_004: We thank you for your love, for your open hearts, and at this time, we would take our leave of this instrument and this group.

01:42:44 SPEAKER_004: We leave you in that unending love and light, the one glorious, infinite Creator that is within each of us and within all. that there is, we are known to you as the, well,

01:42:44 SPEAKER_004: Adney Vasu Boragas.

01:42:44 SPEAKER_004: Very good, very good, very good.

01:42:44 SPEAKER_004: Hey, some meditation and dreams, and Ed, I'm glad you're still here.

01:42:45 SPEAKER_004: You're a blessing.

01:42:49 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, thanks, dude.

01:42:49 SPEAKER_004: Love you.

01:42:49 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, yeah.

01:42:49 SPEAKER_004: I'm glad I'm still here too.

01:42:50 SPEAKER_004: You know, you're a blessing.

01:42:50 SPEAKER_004: Really, there was a reason to keep me about.

01:42:51 SPEAKER_004: So, like, I should really make good on that.

01:42:51 SPEAKER_004: You know.

01:42:52 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, and everyone here is a blessing.

01:42:52 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, sorry, you are too, dude.

01:42:52 SPEAKER_004: You are too.

01:42:52 SPEAKER_004: Um, so I was going to say about that—that last bit there.

01:42:52 SPEAKER_004: Um, I don't know about you guys, but I've actually like had limited, had like quite positive results trying to speak to dead people.

01:42:53 SPEAKER_004: Like, especially since the channeling thing, you know.

01:42:53 SPEAKER_004: Because before the channeling thing, I had the whole thing where I met my dad, didn't I?

01:42:53 SPEAKER_004: You know, we're astral projected and that.

01:42:54 SPEAKER_004: and like that.

01:42:54 SPEAKER_004: That was like that was like life changing experience.

01:42:54 SPEAKER_004: And but then, since then, since learning how to do the the channeling, I've had that experience where I spoke to my friend Justin a few times.

01:42:55 SPEAKER_004: You know, and and so yeah, I don't know.

01:42:55 SPEAKER_004: Like I feel like when you kind of open yourself up and kind of intention and stuff, it's quite easy to kind of speak to dead people.

01:42:56 SPEAKER_004: Just my experience.

01:42:57 SPEAKER_004: I get.

01:42:57 SPEAKER_004: I don't know.

01:42:57 SPEAKER_004: I'm not really interested in it.

01:42:58 SPEAKER_004: I have the aptitude.

01:42:58 SPEAKER_004: I would agree.

01:42:59 SPEAKER_004: But, I, I just feel like I don't.

01:42:59 SPEAKER_004: My thought is like, why are you still here?

01:43:00 SPEAKER_004: Go on.

01:43:00 SPEAKER_004: Get into the higher realms.

01:43:00 SPEAKER_004: Enjoy all that the universe has to offer.

01:43:00 SPEAKER_004: You're. free.

01:43:01 SPEAKER_004: No, no body.

01:43:02 SPEAKER_004: You can travel through dimensions.

01:43:02 SPEAKER_004: You can check out the Akash.

01:43:04 SPEAKER_004: What are you doing here?

01:43:04 SPEAKER_004: Go on.

01:43:04 SPEAKER_004: What's really weird is what's really weird is when I spoke to Justin.

01:43:04 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, the first thing that he said to me was, "Yeah, this isn't really me.

01:43:04 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, this this is just like one version of me, like a leftover fragment.

01:43:04 SPEAKER_004: Yeah, because he's off doing something else.

01:43:05 SPEAKER_004: You know, and that's that's what ghosts are.

01:43:05 SPEAKER_004: They're not the whole person.

01:43:05 SPEAKER_004: They're not the the entire being. they're they're a fragment they're a little mirror image of yeah when I met my dad I actually went to where he was you know which was a completely different

01:43:06 SPEAKER_004: place you know someone completely different whereas Justin came to me and like I said it was this fragmentary part of him and it was a this wonderful experience anyway sorry Andrew oh well it's all

01:43:06 SPEAKER_004: good yeah I was just gonna add that yeah the way that I look at it is that they've exited the game and there's,

01:43:07 SPEAKER_004: I need to focus on the people that are still in it, so I can be of service to them.

01:43:07 SPEAKER_004: They're they're taken care of already.

01:43:07 SPEAKER_004: They they've got it all figured out.

01:43:07 SPEAKER_004: They've got it all handled.

01:43:08 SPEAKER_004: God is can take care of them.

01:43:08 SPEAKER_004: So I think I think for both,

01:43:09 SPEAKER_004: let's kind of say both of those like things were just as much healing for me as it was for you know reaching out to speak to dead people or whatever you know. because I,

01:43:09 SPEAKER_004: because you know, I still carried around so much pain.

01:43:09 SPEAKER_004: My mate Justin died; got hit by a car, and it was all very sudden and horrible.

01:43:10 SPEAKER_004: You know, I carried around that pain for so long, and every year we go to this bench and have like this little memorial thing for him, and you know,

01:43:11 SPEAKER_004: drink JD and eat pizza and like you know, just remember him kind of thing.

01:43:12 SPEAKER_004: And like one year I went down there, and I think I went down at the the day before or something, so I was there on my own.

01:43:12 SPEAKER_004: I just like meditated and just you. know, tried to reach out, and you know, like I said, it was a beautiful interaction.

01:43:14 SPEAKER_004: But in that, in that, it was so much healing for me.

01:43:15 SPEAKER_004: You know, speaking to him again and actually kind of, you know, let him know how I felt and these other things.

01:43:15 SPEAKER_004: And the time with my dad as well.

01:43:15 SPEAKER_004: I mean, that was literally like ten years of therapy in one night.

01:43:15 SPEAKER_004: So, you know, it was as much to kind of heal my own, my own exactly, my own issues and my own shadow.

01:43:16 SPEAKER_003: You know, so that.

01:43:16 SPEAKER_003: You know, um.

01:43:17 SPEAKER_003: So I could move on freely with whatever with those other things, kind of.

01:43:18 SPEAKER_003: So so it's all a tool for kind of the inner work, as it were.

01:43:18 SPEAKER_003: Yeah.

01:43:20 SPEAKER_003: Yeah.

01:43:20 SPEAKER_003: Rather than rather than you know, I just want to talk to some random dead guy.

01:43:20 SPEAKER_003: You know, it's like calling up Jimi Hendrix on a Ouija board.

01:43:21 SPEAKER_003: You know, I'm not.

01:43:21 SPEAKER_003: Yeah, I wasn't doing that.

01:43:21 SPEAKER_003: Fair enough.

01:43:22 SPEAKER_003: Yeah.

01:43:24 SPEAKER_003: Okay, I see.

01:43:24 SPEAKER_003: I see where you're coming from, and that sounds totally legit.

01:43:25 SPEAKER_003: Yeah.

01:43:25 SPEAKER_003: No, I I never doubted you know the validity of the practice.

01:43:26 SPEAKER_003: It's just not. something I would do because that my view is that they should go on and enjoy all that there is.

01:43:27 SPEAKER_003: So, personally, that's all I would have for them is to just eat them into the cosmos to go and see all that there is.

01:43:27 SPEAKER_003: I have to say, where where my dad was did look pretty cool.

01:43:27 SPEAKER_003: You know,

01:43:27 SPEAKER_003: it like the only way I can describe it was like you know you know when you go to like the beach and they have like those beach those bars that have got like big.

01:43:28 SPEAKER_003: Those bars that have got like the big open doors that like lay out so you can see the sea, you know.

01:43:28 SPEAKER_003: But then inside it's a bit darker because like the sun's coming in, you know.

01:43:28 SPEAKER_003: You know what I'm talking about?

01:43:28 SPEAKER_003: Not really.

01:43:29 SPEAKER_003: You must have had like you must have like kind of imagined it.

01:43:31 SPEAKER_003: Yeah.

01:43:34 SPEAKER_003: Okay.

01:43:34 SPEAKER_003: Well, that was that was like the perfect place.

01:43:34 SPEAKER_003: That if if I if I was on holiday somewhere and I had to try and find my dad, those that's the kind of place that I'd go and look for him, as it were.

01:43:35 SPEAKER_003: And he was sitting there like it was his regular spot, you know, in the beachside bar in heaven.

01:43:35 SPEAKER_003: It was honestly the most incredible experience, you know.

01:43:35 SPEAKER_003: And and it's exactly what he would have imagined heaven to be, I suppose.

01:43:35 SPEAKER_003: It was beautiful.

01:43:36 SPEAKER_003: I stepped into kind of his astral, his own astral realm.

01:43:36 SPEAKER_003: It was it was incredible experience.

01:43:36 SPEAKER_003: Anyway, just there you go.

01:43:36 SPEAKER_003: That's cool.

01:43:37 SPEAKER_003: Yeah, I'm glad you got to experience healing in that way and be with him.

01:43:37 SPEAKER_003: Honestly, like I, you know, because we used to spend quite a lot of time drinking.

01:43:37 SPEAKER_003: You know, we're English.

01:43:38 SPEAKER_003: We can do this.

01:43:38 SPEAKER_003: What we do, sit in the pub and drink.

01:43:38 SPEAKER_003: You know, so I spent a lot of time with him in that kind of framework.

01:43:40 SPEAKER_003: And then, you know, when I went back and met him, it felt so natural.

01:43:40 SPEAKER_003: It felt like, you know, something that I've done a hundred times before, but hadn't been able to do for like X amount of time.

01:43:40 SPEAKER_003: And like I said, I've said this before, but we didn't really talk in words.

01:43:40 SPEAKER_003: It was like we sent these little balls of information backwards and forwards, and like. like that—that in itself was such a better way of communicating, you know.

01:43:41 SPEAKER_003: So it was like I'd had the ultimate best night ever in the pub with my dad, you know.

01:43:41 SPEAKER_003: Like I didn't get drunk.

01:43:41 SPEAKER_003: Obviously, I don't know.

01:43:42 SPEAKER_003: I can't remember there being like ghost beer, but you know, the the experience was the same.

01:43:42 SPEAKER_003: And but the communication was of a level that we could never ever have while we were alive.

01:43:42 SPEAKER_003: So it answered any singular question.

01:43:42 SPEAKER_003: I could ever have left over, that that would have caused me pain, you know.

01:43:42 SPEAKER_003: Anyway, sorry, Andre, I was sharp.

01:43:43 SPEAKER_003: Well, that's that's a great great story, and thank you.

01:43:43 SPEAKER_003: Don't don't worry about it.

01:43:44 SPEAKER_003: That was wonderful sharing.

01:43:44 SPEAKER_003: Yeah, I just wanted to share that I read about this in I believe Dolores Cannon's work, and she was saying basically there's like the lower astral and the mid astral,

01:43:45 SPEAKER_003: and and like what you're describing is kind of like the mid astral, like like basically medium level souls, like. who are third density, yeah, no, I'd agree with that.

01:43:45 SPEAKER_003: Recreate like a suburbs in the spirit world, you know, because that's what they're used to, and then they they just like continue having guests over.

01:43:45 SPEAKER_003: And for your father, it was the bar, that's it, side bar.

01:43:45 SPEAKER_003: Yeah, fully agree with that in every way, man.

01:43:47 SPEAKER_003: Is like if if he had to project out heaven in his own little way, you know, in his own little, you know, who he was way, that would be it.

01:43:47 SPEAKER_003: Like I couldn't. have predicted.

01:43:47 SPEAKER_003: I couldn't have like guessed something better.

01:43:49 SPEAKER_003: It was like perfect.

01:43:49 SPEAKER_003: So yeah, exactly what Dolores Cannon says.

01:43:50 SPEAKER_003: You know, you build your own little kind of little chunk of paradise, as it were, for the level that you're at.

01:43:50 SPEAKER_003: Exactly, and then eventually, when they get tired of it, they can move on to another life.

01:43:50 SPEAKER_003: I I did like I did like the advice Co Co gave.

01:43:53 SPEAKER_003: Said you know somebody dies a suicide or whatever, you remember the last moments when.

01:43:53 SPEAKER_003: Remember the last moments with them, and you know the good times, the bad times, how you felt, and just kind of reflect on that, and you know, kind of.

01:43:53 SPEAKER_003: I guess it would put that person more in your heart, you know.

01:43:53 SPEAKER_003: And then, and there's another bit in it that you said earlier, and it was something about like learn to to love without judgment, something like that.

01:43:53 SPEAKER_003: Because I mean, a lot of the time, people kind of push their own kind of oh, this is upset me so.

01:43:53 SPEAKER_003: Why did they do that?

01:43:53 SPEAKER_003: You know, like acceptance.

01:43:53 SPEAKER_003: You know, people have the reasons.

01:43:53 SPEAKER_003: Like everyone fights their own battles and shit, right?

01:43:53 SPEAKER_003: All right.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: Any closing remarks, guy?

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: Yeah, it's best not to close.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: I was gonna say that the meditation and the dreams to connect the to the loved ones.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: It's a good advice too.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: For sure.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: So, so we got a lot of good advice.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: from Kuo out of this session, for sure, as we usually do.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: Yeah.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: All right.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: And and next week is May seventeenth, homecoming, and I think Ashley and some other people were there.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: Oh, nice!

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: So that's next.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: Oh yeah.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: Cool.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: So that's our next reading.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: That I think.

01:43:54 SPEAKER_003: Nice.

01:43:55 SPEAKER_003: So as I found.

01:43:55 SPEAKER_003: you, or as we found you, we leave you in infinite love, an infinite light of the infinite Creator within you and all around you, my friends.

01:43:55 SPEAKER_003: Go forth, therefore, rejoicing in that infinite power, an infinite peace, and I, as well.

01:43:55 SPEAKER_003: Adonai, thank you.